Puppy not growing - suspected liver shunt

[henrys mum]

It's worth asking your insurance company as I assume he was healthy when you collected him and had him insured? Depending on the company they might cover it as you can't expect to know whats going to happen in the future. Sounds like you'll need a speedy referral to a vet specialist centre to get him sorted. Let us know how you get on.
Henry and Cassis send big giant hugs xx

[countrygirl]

Thanks to everyone for your support and kind words about the pup.

Rufus went in for bile acid tests this week, which meant taking him in after a 12 hour fast (so no breakfast) so that the first set of blood could be taken, he was then fed a fatty meal and a second round of blood was taken after 2 hours. The expectation is that animals with a liver shunt will show markedly high bile acid acid levels before and particularly after eating.

When I spoke to the vet last week she said she would be very surprised if the tests were negative so I've been expecting the worst. However today the results have come back inconclusive, they are high but not high enough for the lab to confirm a shunt. It was a different vet who called with the information and he said that further tests were needed in order to confirm the diagnosis but that he still felt that a shunt is the most likely indication. I'm taking him on for an ultrasound and x-ray tomorrow which is going to put the diagnostic costs so far over £300.

If what we all suspect is confirmed then my options are firstly medical management on a low protein diet but the prognosis is poor in that he will slowly deteriorate and more than likely develop seizures and head pressing over the coming months to the extent that I would have to put him to sleep to stop him suffering. The second option is (uninsured) surgery at a cost of c£3,000, if sucessful he could go on to lead a normal healthy life, however he may not survive the operation or the fault may not be fixed entirely The vet says that his size (just over 2kg) works against him and I have to weigh up both the financial costs and how much I want to put the little chap through.

I feel stuck between the options and can't bear the thought of watching him suffer and/or just prolonging the inevitable. At the moment he's happy enough, but his energy levels are low again so he's sleeping a lot and sometimes just looks at me with this tragic look which just breaks my heart. (crying)

I know this is a decision I have to make myself but any thoughts or experience would be welcome.

[daisys_mummy]

It's the hardest decision you'll ever have to make.

If there's a chance, and you can afford it, go for it - if not, don't let him suffer. It's not fair.

That's just my opinion.

Good luck xxx

[countrygirl]

One other thing I meant to mention - a lot of the research and info I've seen says that these Portosystemic Shunts (PSS) are common in miniature schnauzers. Much of the info comes from the US so it may be more prevalent over there, but my vet said it to me today as well, so it is something to be mindful and aware of.

A more simple bile acid test can be done at 8 weeks to detect if a shunt is indicated before any symtoms arise. I'm not suggesting breeders test as a rule, but after my experience I would certainly pay for a test if I were to get another mini for my own piece of mind. It is a horrid condition.

Excerpt from the ACVS: The genetic basis of PSS in dogs is unknown but it is considered congenital and breeds affected include Miniature schnauzers, Yorkshire terriers, Irish wolfhounds, Cairn terriers, Maltese, Australian cattle dogs, Golden retrievers, Old English sheepdogs and Labrador retrievers.
http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/Health ... unts(PSS)/

[Tulip]

Oh Tania. I'm so sorry, poor Rufus but poor you, having been put through all of this. I think this is a decision only you can make, I haven o idea what I would do in that situation and it breaks my heart to think of doing so.

I'll be talking to my vet about bile acid test to check if we can have the whole litter done and what it entails. xx

[montykins]

Poor Rufus, I know it will be a very hard decision if you have to make it, but he
needs you to be brave and do what is right in the end for him.
Sending you good healing thoughts.

[Snazy]

Congenital just means it is something they are born with, doesn't mean it is hereditary within a family line.

If you can afford the treatment (sure it isn't covered from the puppy insurance from the breeder??), then I would go for it, if not then just manage it as best you can until he starts to show symptoms.

[Darwinsmum]

Sending you hugs and positive thoughts xx

[dannie_kl]

didnt you get any insurance with the pup from the breeder. most breeder use eithe rpet plan or the kennel club insurance as these are free, they cost the breeder nother and cost the new owner nothing as long as no claim is made, if a claim is made obviously you have to continue on with the policy.
Im sorry you are joining here under such worrying circumstances and hope you get the results of Rufus' tests quickly so you can get an idea of the best course of action.

[riiseni]

didnt you get any insurance with the pup from the breeder. most breeder use eithe rpet plan or the kennel club insurance as these are free, they cost the breeder nother and cost the new owner nothing as long as no claim is made, if a claim is made obviously you have to continue on with the policy.
Im sorry you are joining here under such worrying circumstances and hope you get the results of Rufus' tests quickly so you can get an idea of the best course of action.

If the puppy is born with the illness then the insurance company won't cover it. Their explanation is that he/she had it before he/she was insured.
When Archie had to have his bottom baby canines pulled out, it wasn't covered because they said he had the problem from birth.
Unless things have changed since, I wouldn't think he's covered.

I really don't envy you countrygirl. When Archie was ill I knew I had to make the ultimate decision. All I would say is that for me it was all about the quality of life.
I don't have any regrets of the time I let him go. He was ill enough not to enjoy the things he used to enjoy, but he wasn't too ill either. He even growled at me just before he slipped away so he was still there, but very ill.
Whatever decision you make, it has to be the right one for you. Take care.

[dannie_kl]

I think riiseni, with the pet plan insurance and the KC one provided the insurance is in place before the problem is diagnosed you are ok. i know with the cocker puppies heart condition had i have insured him before that vet check he would have been covered but i didnt so it was up to me to pay and it is now classed as a pre-existing condition.

[riiseni]

I think riiseni, with the pet plan insurance and the KC one provided the insurance is in place before the problem is diagnosed you are ok. i know with the cocker puppies heart condition had i have insured him before that vet check he would have been covered but i didnt so it was up to me to pay and it is now classed as a pre-existing condition.

I can believe that. When I first got Archie he was on E&L insurance which was absolutly useless and that's why I'll never have anything, but Petplan now. Maybe if he'd been insured with Petplan from the go he'd been insured for the teeth.

[Snazy]

I'm not sure about teeth, they don't seem to be covered under insurance.

You are also insured for free for 4 weeks once a puppy is microchipped - handy for breeders as the pup can be covered as soon as they are chipped and not wait until they are going to new homes

[FAB1]

Hi,
My mini schnauzer Jake born 1st June 2011, has a shunt, I have taken him to the vets many times, and blood tests were done on friday in house and external, I had the results on Saturday, Jake is now in tablets from the vet lactulose, and special food, the change in him is amazing, I have got an appointment to see a specialist and if I go ahead he will be operated on the same day. He has to be on this medication for 3 weeks so that they are operating on a well pup, although we had not related it to food, when he did go down bank it was quick, signs he was very small even at 14 weeks when we had him, not eating, beard soaking wet through dribbling, weak, not been able to settle, constantly walking around but leaning on something whilst doing so, including walking with his head against the item he was leaning on inside it was the puppy pen, outside the brick work of the house, or the wall, his only chance is surgery as kept on medication I am told is only short term with short life span, our other mini passed away in June, I am not ready to loose another 1 so soon, our 5 year old so not to be left out has been involved with the pup, choosing his bed collar lead and his name, everyday he says how much he loves him, he will be devistated should the worst happen, our pup who we had because he was the cheapest I could find is now going to be so costly, but what else can I do? His 4 weeks insurance has ran out, and I would not be able to claim anyway as it would be classed as an ongoing condition. Any help or advice from people who had gone through this or had the surgery done would be greatly appreciated.

[countrygirl]

Dear Fab1,

I am so sorry to hear that Jake has been diagnosed with a shunt, it is a terrible disease but please do not give up hope as many pups live long heathly lives after surgery. Sadly my dear Rufus died 3 weeks ago at just seven months, I miss him so much and can completely understand your despair after losing your beloved pet in June. The agonising thing with Rufus was that he was actually misdiagnosed and it was only after changing vets and further scans that we found he had a foreign body intestinal obstruction and not a shunt, he sadly died following surgery to remove it.

I can strongly recommend that you join the Liver Shunt and MVD support yahoo group (link below). The site has a wealth of information and the moderators are very well informed to help you with any questions, the other members are also tremendously supportive and have either been through it already or are in the same place as you.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Liver_Shu ... D_Support/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My thoughts are with you and Jake for a sucessfully outcome,
Tania