Meet Kiki!
Moderators: GaryThomlinson, zeta1454, Dawnspell
Forum rules
Please do not post questions regarding your dog here. This area allows people to introduce themselves and get to know other members of the forum. Any specific issues can be raised in the appropriate section.
Please do not post questions regarding your dog here. This area allows people to introduce themselves and get to know other members of the forum. Any specific issues can be raised in the appropriate section.
-
- Member
- Posts: 55
- Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 15:59
- First Name: Menna
- Dog #1: Kiki
- is a: B/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 28 May 2018
Meet Kiki!
5 weeks old today! B&S mini, female. Mum is black, dad is B&S. We met her on Saturday and we are very excited to bring her home in a few weeks!!
I do have a few questions that maybe someone can help with (maybe this is the wrong place to post?):
1) I was hoping she could stay with her mum longer than 8 weeks but the breeder lets them go at 8. She does not vaccinate them because her vet will not give just one vaccination so this will be down to us. If I can persuade the breeder to keep her til she's 9 weeks, will this be a problem? Does she need vaccinating bang on (or before) 8 weeks?
2) I am going to get lifetime health insurance, but the vet also has a scheme where you pay £12.50 per month to cover vaccinations, 2nd health check, worm & flea treatments, urine tests, nail clipping, microchip & certain discounts on e.g. dentistry, food etc. Do you think it is worth doing?
Thanks for your help
- mikegoodson1
- Member
- Posts: 714
- Joined: 31 Mar 2016, 11:52
- First Name: Mike
- Dog #1: Oscar
- is a: Black Mini Dog
- Born: 17 Oct 2015
- Dog #2: Sasha
- is a: B/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 23 Sep 2017
Re: Meet Kiki!
Kiki looks adorable and I am sure most people will feel that little tug around wanting another Schnauzer to add to their family once they see her picture
I'm not sure I can help with Q1 but on Q2, we paid the £9.99 puppy scheme too, to cover the treatments you talk about. From a real world example, I'm not convinced it's worthwhile but this may depend on the vet practise you are with. We don't have proactive contact with our vets on the grooming side, so nails are only clipped when we take our pooches in and one piece of advice, get them used to this early doors. Oscar and now Sasha are really not into having their feet touched and so the vets are unable to cut their nails because they detest it so much. I ended up buying my own nail clippers and tend to try and do a nail per night
But we do get the flea and worm treatments as part of this and I believe there was a discount too for having Oscar neutered and hopefully one when we have Sasha spayed. On the insurance side, it's definitely best to get the lifetime cover.
So when you get Kiki home, just get her used to being brushed gently and having her feet/ears/mouth checked too, as if you do this from the beginning, you will not have the problems I now have
Good luck!
I'm not sure I can help with Q1 but on Q2, we paid the £9.99 puppy scheme too, to cover the treatments you talk about. From a real world example, I'm not convinced it's worthwhile but this may depend on the vet practise you are with. We don't have proactive contact with our vets on the grooming side, so nails are only clipped when we take our pooches in and one piece of advice, get them used to this early doors. Oscar and now Sasha are really not into having their feet touched and so the vets are unable to cut their nails because they detest it so much. I ended up buying my own nail clippers and tend to try and do a nail per night
But we do get the flea and worm treatments as part of this and I believe there was a discount too for having Oscar neutered and hopefully one when we have Sasha spayed. On the insurance side, it's definitely best to get the lifetime cover.
So when you get Kiki home, just get her used to being brushed gently and having her feet/ears/mouth checked too, as if you do this from the beginning, you will not have the problems I now have
Good luck!
- Schnauzer Sam
- Member
- Posts: 743
- Joined: 28 Sep 2017, 20:40
- First Name: Sam
- Dog #1: Rosie
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 06 Jul 2017
- Dog #2: Edie
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 11 Jun 2018
- Location: Guernsey
Re: Meet Kiki!
Hi Menna, great to catch sight of Kiki.
1) I don't think it matters too much that the pup is vaccinated at 9 weeks rather than 8 other than it delays the time you can take them out. There are others here with much more experience though that may have different thoughts.
2) My own experience of this is that it is probably worth doing for the first year ( I know I spent more than £150 on the routine stuff) but you may wish to read other posts on the forum regarding ongoing vaccinations/worming/defleaing. If you adopt the "less commercial" approach then you will find the £12.50 a month will leave you out of pocket.
1) I don't think it matters too much that the pup is vaccinated at 9 weeks rather than 8 other than it delays the time you can take them out. There are others here with much more experience though that may have different thoughts.
2) My own experience of this is that it is probably worth doing for the first year ( I know I spent more than £150 on the routine stuff) but you may wish to read other posts on the forum regarding ongoing vaccinations/worming/defleaing. If you adopt the "less commercial" approach then you will find the £12.50 a month will leave you out of pocket.
Country Girl at Heart (Molly) 8 April 2003 - 22 December 2018
You're never alone when you own a schnauzer
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Rosie-and-E ... 872588622/
You're never alone when you own a schnauzer
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Rosie-and-E ... 872588622/
-
- Member
- Posts: 55
- Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 15:59
- First Name: Menna
- Dog #1: Kiki
- is a: B/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 28 May 2018
Re: Meet Kiki!
Thank you both.
Yes, I was thinking of doing the scheme for the first year and then maybe dropping it. With the nails, if I'm having her groomed professionally (at least to begin with) am I right in thinking they do the nails as part of that?
Mike, Kiki's breeder is a groomer so she is already used to being brushed etc, so I just need to keep that going.
Kiki was very calm when we saw her, she'd just been fed and it was quite hot so I'm hoping that it's a good sort of calm.. She was alert and was actually looking into our eyes! but quite happy to sit on my daughters' laps and be stroked. Is this normal? I have no problem having a calm dog (!) but I had just imagined she'd be bouncing around more.
Yes, I was thinking of doing the scheme for the first year and then maybe dropping it. With the nails, if I'm having her groomed professionally (at least to begin with) am I right in thinking they do the nails as part of that?
Mike, Kiki's breeder is a groomer so she is already used to being brushed etc, so I just need to keep that going.
Kiki was very calm when we saw her, she'd just been fed and it was quite hot so I'm hoping that it's a good sort of calm.. She was alert and was actually looking into our eyes! but quite happy to sit on my daughters' laps and be stroked. Is this normal? I have no problem having a calm dog (!) but I had just imagined she'd be bouncing around more.
- mikegoodson1
- Member
- Posts: 714
- Joined: 31 Mar 2016, 11:52
- First Name: Mike
- Dog #1: Oscar
- is a: Black Mini Dog
- Born: 17 Oct 2015
- Dog #2: Sasha
- is a: B/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 23 Sep 2017
Re: Meet Kiki!
Good news about the breeder being a dog groomer already, so she will be used to be handled etc. The place I have Oscar and Sasha groomed do clip the nails and I think most places are the same, so you should be good there.
I wouldn't worry about Kiki being calm, that sounds like a good thing. When we went to see Sasha at 6 weeks old, she was quite inquisitive and happy to wander around and sit on our lap and she even gave my nose a few kisses but she wasn't jumping around - don't worry, you will have all of that to come once you get her home and she settles in and then starts exploring
I wouldn't worry about Kiki being calm, that sounds like a good thing. When we went to see Sasha at 6 weeks old, she was quite inquisitive and happy to wander around and sit on our lap and she even gave my nose a few kisses but she wasn't jumping around - don't worry, you will have all of that to come once you get her home and she settles in and then starts exploring
-
- Member
- Posts: 55
- Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 15:59
- First Name: Menna
- Dog #1: Kiki
- is a: B/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 28 May 2018
Re: Meet Kiki!
That's good to hear Mike, thanks for the reassurance. I asked the breeder whether she was showing any personality traits yet and she said she's a bit of a thinker, so she will assess the situation then decide what to do (a bit like my youngest daughter!).
-
- Member
- Posts: 1592
- Joined: 02 May 2017, 11:28
- First Name: Julie
- Dog #1: Oscar RIP Sweety
- is a: P/S Mini Dog
- Born: 21 Dec 2002
- Dog #2: Otto
- is a: B/S Mini Dog
- Born: 04 Jul 2017
Re: Meet Kiki!
Menna, what an adorable little thing. When we visited Otto and picked him up he was quite content and still whilst we stroked him, turned into a real wriggle bottom when we got him home. Oscar's breeder told me that Oscar my first was a thinker and she was right. You could see the cogs going around as he was weighing stuff up. Happy days!
Man cannot survive with wine alone...
we also need a schnauzer.
we also need a schnauzer.
-
- Member
- Posts: 55
- Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 15:59
- First Name: Menna
- Dog #1: Kiki
- is a: B/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 28 May 2018
Re: Meet Kiki!
aww sweet. I can't wait!!
Just in the process of making lists and spending a lot of money online it seems ;-)
Just in the process of making lists and spending a lot of money online it seems ;-)
- Robin black mini
- Member
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: 03 Mar 2015, 13:48
- First Name: Jo
- Dog #1: Robin
- is a: Black Mini Bitch
- Born: 13 Dec 2014
- Dog #2: Stanley st poodle
- Born: 24 Nov 2012
- Location: Italy
Re: Meet Kiki!
Welcome on board..
Normally a pup will have had its first vaccination by eight weeks..
If this is not the case your vet will do this for you and the you will need a second vaccination about two weeks later...a few days over will not be a problem ,and the second vacc will be two weeks after the first.
I would be careful to check the parents have been pra cleared( you want to see certificates for this) and your pup has been checked and cleared for hereditary cataracts.( also with a certificate)
Normally when the pups have their first vaccination ,done by breeders vet,they are also microchipped too..this is required by law..is your pup microchipped?
If none of these things,I'd walk away.
Normally a pup will have had its first vaccination by eight weeks..
If this is not the case your vet will do this for you and the you will need a second vaccination about two weeks later...a few days over will not be a problem ,and the second vacc will be two weeks after the first.
I would be careful to check the parents have been pra cleared( you want to see certificates for this) and your pup has been checked and cleared for hereditary cataracts.( also with a certificate)
Normally when the pups have their first vaccination ,done by breeders vet,they are also microchipped too..this is required by law..is your pup microchipped?
If none of these things,I'd walk away.
-
- Member
- Posts: 55
- Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 15:59
- First Name: Menna
- Dog #1: Kiki
- is a: B/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 28 May 2018
Re: Meet Kiki!
Hi Jo, yes the parents have been cleared and pup will be checked too, and I will get paperwork for this.
Good point about microchipping - I will call her and double check - I imagine it will be in hand as she is a well regarded and experienced breeder (so I'm told) and I have heard nothing but good things about her.
Good point about microchipping - I will call her and double check - I imagine it will be in hand as she is a well regarded and experienced breeder (so I'm told) and I have heard nothing but good things about her.
- Robin black mini
- Member
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: 03 Mar 2015, 13:48
- First Name: Jo
- Dog #1: Robin
- is a: Black Mini Bitch
- Born: 13 Dec 2014
- Dog #2: Stanley st poodle
- Born: 24 Nov 2012
- Location: Italy
Re: Meet Kiki!
Good re pra parents..you won't get their paperwork for this,but enough to actually see they are done..pup is too young to do a pra test...this is done after adulthood..happy_schnappy wrote: ↑02 Jul 2018, 13:00 Hi Jo, yes the parents have been cleared and pup will be checked too, and I will get paperwork for this.
Good point about microchipping - I will call her and double check - I imagine it will be in hand as she is a well regarded and experienced breeder (so I'm told) and I have heard nothing but good things about her.
You should however,get a piece of paper re HC ( hereditary cataract test) done on your pup to say all clear..
Pup should be microchipped.
Vaccs can be done with your vet..as mentioned..even if breeder kept pup till nine weeks the second vacc would still have to be done by yr vet,so I'd do both with your vet,also good for him to listen to pups heart,check pup for hernia,look at skin ,eyes etc..
Finally re temperament....go by breeders assessment,as it depends when you see the pup as to how they present themselves..my breeder knew all the temperaments of the litter and his assessment was spot on..I got the alpha girl,who no one else wanted due to her growling gruff manner even at eight weeks,..she's been perfect for me and rules my 22 kg boy here with a glance..perfect..she's also my love bug,but definitely an assertive girl.
Ps. Your pup looks adorable.! calm is good,very good LOL
-
- Member
- Posts: 55
- Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 15:59
- First Name: Menna
- Dog #1: Kiki
- is a: B/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 28 May 2018
Re: Meet Kiki!
I misunderstood about the PRA test, thanks for clarifying. I think it must have been the HC I was thinking of.
I'm going to write a list of everything I need to double check before calling the breeder.
I spoke to the vet we will be using, who said if the breeder vaccinates and it is not the same vaccine as they stock, they will need to start again anyway, so I guess it's not a bad thing that the breeder isn't getting the first vaccine done.
I'll get back to you in a few weeks about the calmness - I'm sure it won't last!!
I'm going to write a list of everything I need to double check before calling the breeder.
I spoke to the vet we will be using, who said if the breeder vaccinates and it is not the same vaccine as they stock, they will need to start again anyway, so I guess it's not a bad thing that the breeder isn't getting the first vaccine done.
I'll get back to you in a few weeks about the calmness - I'm sure it won't last!!
- zeta1454
- Moderator
- Posts: 5148
- Joined: 19 May 2011, 16:58
- First Name: Leigh
- Dog #1: Magic
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 20 Apr 2010
- Dog #2: Trilby
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 15 Mar 2012
- Dog #3: Pip
- Born: 21 Feb 2014
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Location: North Yorkshire
- Contact:
Re: Meet Kiki!
Kiki looks adorable
Re your questions:
There is no need for a puppy to be vaccinated by or even at 8 weeks of age as long as you can keep her safe when taking her out and about to socialise her. Carrying her in a puppy sling or taking her around in a pet buggy (especially the latter) means she can be protected from contact with potential disease while still being exposed to the sights and sounds of the outside world. She can still play outside in your own garden and meet other dogs as long as you know that they are healthy and not likely to be harbouring disease or parasites. We wait until at least 12 weeks of age before having our pups vaccinated as, by that age, most will no longer have maternal antibodies to the diseases that are vaccinated against and therefore will gain immunity from a single shot. A titre test six to eight weeks later will confirm whether the puppy has immunity and, if so, they should be covered for the next three years at least- a titre test at that point should confirm whether re-vaccination is actually needed. Our vet recently titre tested our new puppy at 18 weeks following a vaccination with DHP at 12 weeks and she had a good positive score so the vet said it would not be until 2021 that she needed testing again.
The reason puppies are often given repeated vaccines is to try and make sure that the vaccine is not cancelled out by maternal antibodies, not because they actually need repeated doses. A single vaccine shot can immunise but only if the puppy's immune system is able to respond and not compromised by illness, stress, or maternal antibodies (MDA) and the latter can last for anything from about six weeks up to 14 or even 16 weeks in a few cases, although in most pups the MDA will have waned sufficiently by 12 weeks to pose no problem to the vaccine working.
It is actually a myth that any puppy needs to start a course of vaccines again if they have had a vaccine from the breeder but, as so many vets seem unaware of the WSAVA advice regarding this, you will find many who still promote this so you are definitely better not having her vaccinated before you take her from the breeder.
As regards the vet surgery payment scheme, I would have a really good look at this before signing up, even for the first year to ensure that you are not paying out for unnecessary products or services.
Your puppy will definitely be microchipped before you take her as it is illegal in the UK to sell or rehome a puppy without it being microchipped and the microchip details will be those of the breeder who should supply you with the paperwork or details to change the microchip database information to your name and address. So any figure for microchipping at the vet is irrelevant and will not be needed.
Worm and flea treatments are not necessarily needed if your puppy does not have fleas or worms. Our vet does not promote any flea treatments on a "just in case" basis as well fed and cared for puppies and dogs rarely get fleas and can be treated effectively if they do. Our vet also encourages the use of faecal worm testing in puppies / dogs after the age of 12 weeks so as not to give unnecessary treatments if the pup/dog does not have a worm problem but can also identify an issue if there is one developing. You can buy worm count test kits yourself for a reasonable cost which will almost certainly be less than the payment at the vets.
Check whether the vaccination component covers the initial course and, if not, you need to wonder what they are charging for as if your puppy has confirmed immunity from her initial vaccinations, she will be covered for three years anyway. Find out what the cost of vaccination is and this will help you to work out if the scheme is financially useful.
"Discounts on services" seem to me to be on those which you are unlikely to need in the first year - dentistry on a puppy should be a rare occurrence I would have thought and nail clipping should be something you can be doing yourself. The food component will be a discount on whatever single brand of food the surgery sells in all likelihood and the reason they stock the brand is because they are financially rewarded by the manufacturer for promoting it to their clients. Many vet surgeries are now controlled by business people who are looking for a profitable return on their investments leaving the vets to carry out the actual surgery and medical side of things and making money on the non-essentials through payment plans and pet clubs. You need to be sure that you retain control of decision making regarding your puppy in terms of nutrition and any non-essential treatments such as anti-parasitics and not be manipulated into a situation where you feel you need to recover the costs you have paid out by buying things you actually don't want or need for your puppy.
Good luck - and I look forward to seeing more photos of Kiki once you have her home with you
Re your questions:
There is no need for a puppy to be vaccinated by or even at 8 weeks of age as long as you can keep her safe when taking her out and about to socialise her. Carrying her in a puppy sling or taking her around in a pet buggy (especially the latter) means she can be protected from contact with potential disease while still being exposed to the sights and sounds of the outside world. She can still play outside in your own garden and meet other dogs as long as you know that they are healthy and not likely to be harbouring disease or parasites. We wait until at least 12 weeks of age before having our pups vaccinated as, by that age, most will no longer have maternal antibodies to the diseases that are vaccinated against and therefore will gain immunity from a single shot. A titre test six to eight weeks later will confirm whether the puppy has immunity and, if so, they should be covered for the next three years at least- a titre test at that point should confirm whether re-vaccination is actually needed. Our vet recently titre tested our new puppy at 18 weeks following a vaccination with DHP at 12 weeks and she had a good positive score so the vet said it would not be until 2021 that she needed testing again.
The reason puppies are often given repeated vaccines is to try and make sure that the vaccine is not cancelled out by maternal antibodies, not because they actually need repeated doses. A single vaccine shot can immunise but only if the puppy's immune system is able to respond and not compromised by illness, stress, or maternal antibodies (MDA) and the latter can last for anything from about six weeks up to 14 or even 16 weeks in a few cases, although in most pups the MDA will have waned sufficiently by 12 weeks to pose no problem to the vaccine working.
It is actually a myth that any puppy needs to start a course of vaccines again if they have had a vaccine from the breeder but, as so many vets seem unaware of the WSAVA advice regarding this, you will find many who still promote this so you are definitely better not having her vaccinated before you take her from the breeder.
As regards the vet surgery payment scheme, I would have a really good look at this before signing up, even for the first year to ensure that you are not paying out for unnecessary products or services.
Your puppy will definitely be microchipped before you take her as it is illegal in the UK to sell or rehome a puppy without it being microchipped and the microchip details will be those of the breeder who should supply you with the paperwork or details to change the microchip database information to your name and address. So any figure for microchipping at the vet is irrelevant and will not be needed.
Worm and flea treatments are not necessarily needed if your puppy does not have fleas or worms. Our vet does not promote any flea treatments on a "just in case" basis as well fed and cared for puppies and dogs rarely get fleas and can be treated effectively if they do. Our vet also encourages the use of faecal worm testing in puppies / dogs after the age of 12 weeks so as not to give unnecessary treatments if the pup/dog does not have a worm problem but can also identify an issue if there is one developing. You can buy worm count test kits yourself for a reasonable cost which will almost certainly be less than the payment at the vets.
Check whether the vaccination component covers the initial course and, if not, you need to wonder what they are charging for as if your puppy has confirmed immunity from her initial vaccinations, she will be covered for three years anyway. Find out what the cost of vaccination is and this will help you to work out if the scheme is financially useful.
"Discounts on services" seem to me to be on those which you are unlikely to need in the first year - dentistry on a puppy should be a rare occurrence I would have thought and nail clipping should be something you can be doing yourself. The food component will be a discount on whatever single brand of food the surgery sells in all likelihood and the reason they stock the brand is because they are financially rewarded by the manufacturer for promoting it to their clients. Many vet surgeries are now controlled by business people who are looking for a profitable return on their investments leaving the vets to carry out the actual surgery and medical side of things and making money on the non-essentials through payment plans and pet clubs. You need to be sure that you retain control of decision making regarding your puppy in terms of nutrition and any non-essential treatments such as anti-parasitics and not be manipulated into a situation where you feel you need to recover the costs you have paid out by buying things you actually don't want or need for your puppy.
Good luck - and I look forward to seeing more photos of Kiki once you have her home with you
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras
Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud
https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/C ... 916994967/
Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud
https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/C ... 916994967/
-
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 08 Jun 2018, 21:40
- First Name: Linda
Re: Meet Kiki!
Hi, were collecting Runa in 4 weeks time but she’ll be 11 weeks old then. Our breeder is doing the first injection but I’m worried about the gap for the second ones. Runa’s dad is black/silver and mum silver pepper - will be exciting to see how they turn out! Like you our vet also offers this puppy service but someone told me that you should still get insurance separately.
Good luck with Kiki
Good luck with Kiki
-
- Member
- Posts: 55
- Joined: 25 Apr 2018, 15:59
- First Name: Menna
- Dog #1: Kiki
- is a: B/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 28 May 2018
Re: Meet Kiki!
Leigh, once again thanks for such informative advice, very interesting what you say about vaccinations. I am going to look into this a lot more closely and call other vets to see what their standard procedure is, and I will also speak to the original vet and ask about a titre test.
Sounds like the payment scheme might be a slight waste of money but I will do all the sums before deciding. Also I like the sound of your vet who doesn't just give treatments 'just in case'. I would imagine though that a lot of veterinary practices do this.
As an ex breeder Leigh, do you think leaving the mother at 8 weeks is OK or should I push for her to stay longer?
Bankcott, Runa is a sweet name, not heard it before. If you read Leigh's post just before yours, she gives some interesting insights on second vaccinations.
Sounds like the payment scheme might be a slight waste of money but I will do all the sums before deciding. Also I like the sound of your vet who doesn't just give treatments 'just in case'. I would imagine though that a lot of veterinary practices do this.
As an ex breeder Leigh, do you think leaving the mother at 8 weeks is OK or should I push for her to stay longer?
Bankcott, Runa is a sweet name, not heard it before. If you read Leigh's post just before yours, she gives some interesting insights on second vaccinations.