Rosie and Edie go on RAW

[Schnauzer Sam]

With thanks to Julie (Oscar12345) for the thread name,

I've been investigating RAW for a few months now as Rosie is getting increasingly disinterested in food and quite a bit of encouragement is necessary to get her to eat. My assumption is that she's bored with what she sees and smells in her bowl?

The UK suppliers of RAW won't ship to Guernsey due to the logistical problems of keeping small items frozen for the journey. I discovered this week that a couple in Guernsey import Nutriment a tonne at a time (4000 packs!) which is shipped with the frozen food chain for shops in Guernsey. They then sell them on to people from outbuildings on their property. They open on 4 days a week for a couple of hours at a time and stock the complete range of Nutriment products.

I went last night and picked up a chicken variety suitable for a puppy and a turkey variety suitable for an adult and left them out to thaw overnight. The owner was very informative and let me have these as free samples. Nutriment's website said that I had 2 choices about the transfer to RAW. One was to introduce slowly and the other is to skip a meal and then just feed RAW. The latter approach is easier for a younger dog to manage and I decided to try this with both girls.

This morning I opened the tubs to discover the food looked like mince with obvious bits of bone. It was very different to how I thought it would look as I'd assumed the meat would be in bigger pieces. The consistency is quite firm too, much like mince beef.

Rosie is 9.5 kg and as she needs 2-3% of her body weight per day I gave her a quarter of the pack (125g). Although Edie is lighter at 8.5kg, she needs 4-5% as she's still growing so I also gave her a quarter of the pack. I gave it a bit of a mix up and popped the bowls down to see what the reactions would be.

Edie, as expected, just loved it. She will hoover up anything so this was no surprise. Rosie was my bigger concern. She had a sniff then devoured it She was walking round for a few minutes afterwards licking her lips. The best news is that 4 hours on and we've had no ill effects!!

[Oscar 12345]

Hi Sam,

Wow what a start. Fingers crossed that all goes well in next 24 hours. How many grams/day are you feeding Rosie?

[Schnauzer Sam]

Hi Sam,

Wow what a start. Fingers crossed that all goes well in next 24 hours. How many grams/day are you feeding Rosie?

Hi Julie,

I edited the first post for a fuller description. An adult like Oscar needs 2-3% of their body weight per day. Assuming a 10 kg dog. That's 10,000g x2% and 10,000g x 3% so somwhere between 200g and 300g for the whole day or assumming their fed twice a day 100g to 150g per meal. Given the pack is 500g I simply dished out a quarter of the pack.

Just like other food you adjust for the activity and metabolic rate for the dog so if their getting a bit porky you lower the amount and vice versa.

I was really surprised at how easily they took to it. I'd assumed there'd be a bit of bowl lifting after 10 minutes etc but no - all gone with no drama. Hoping tonight will be as easy

[Dawnspell]

Did you meet their Rhodesian Ridgeback? its a gorgeous dog. I tried Barney on Nutriment he wouldn't touch it, too sloppy for him. Apart from all the pet shops stocking raw there is also this place. I've never tried them though but they have a selection of chews/snacks that the Nutriment man didn't stock at the time I went.
http://www.rawtopaw.co.uk/

I doubt you'll have any ill effects other than adjusting what you give for poo consistency.

[Schnauzer Sam]

I doubt you'll have any ill effects other than adjusting what you give for poo consistency.

Now you have me worried Alison - my expectations were for smaller solid poos - am I wrong?

[Dinkum]

Now you have me worried Alison - my expectations were for smaller solid poos - am I wrong?

No, their poos will be tiny in comparison. Most people think their dogs are constipated when they first switch to raw as the poo can be quite hard and like small pellets. It's so easy to pick up. If you have a large garden and just left it (we do occasionally in France), it turns snow white in 2 days and crumbles to powder.

Ours love their Nutriment and have been on chicken or turkey for 7 years now. The bowls are still as clean as a whistle within seconds of putting the food down. I sometimes wonder why I bother washing them.

Rupert (13kg) gets 300g per day (2.3%) whilst Watson (11kg) gets 240g (2.18%) per day. I have a separate scale for measuring out their food. I adjust it up and down accordingly depending on activity levels. Normally less in winter as we walk shorter distances than the summer.

Good luck with your two. I hope they continue to love their food. Let us know how you get on with the poo and let us know when you notice the change in their coats.

[Schnauzer Sam]

This RAW diet is brilliant and it's great to see Rosie enjoy her food again. She doesn't dance round the room like Edie but the food doesn't stay long in the bowl. I'm sticking with turkey for Rosie for another couple of days and will then introduce chicken.

Dean, is there a reason why you only use turkey and chicken? There's also lamb, duck, salmon and beef. I suspect the lamb and duck are fattier. I know the beef is smelly (the tripe I think) and the salmon I'm told is mushy. Also, do I need to give anything else? small bones like lamb ribs to knaw on or is the Nutriment complete?

Julie, if you're considering the RAW route, I can really recommend you take the plunge. It might be everything that Otto needs to settle his tummy. I've had no issue with either girl and Roie's digestion was sensitive like Otto.

[Oscar 12345]

Hi Sam, you are really making me think hard about it. Great results so far and it sounds like you have had no transition problems which I find really interesting. I took the plunge yesterday and gave Otto a lambs rib. He loved it and chomped on it for an hour. I did remove two pieces that were long and sharp. Hopefully as time goes by I become less nervous. I know, just a rib I hear all those raw feeders saying but for me it is a big step. He had no problem digesting it and his poop was literally ejected about 1 foot behind him in small pellets later. Amazing what bone does, I wonder why pet feed doesn't have bone added to it.... His system seemed to love it. I also noticed an expression on his face when he was licking the raw bone, a kind of nervous excitement.

Are you finding that they are still hungry or is it filling them the same as their previous feed?

Is all their poop firm, ie if they go more than once is the last as firm as the first?

Are there any vegetables in it or do people normally add the veg?

[Schnauzer Sam]

Hi Julie,

The one Rosie's eating at the moment has these ingredients, so the veg is already added.

Contains 85% fresh meat, offal and bone.
British Turkey with Bone, British Beef Green Tripe, British Beef Kidney, British Beef Liver, Fresh Carrots, Fresh Butternut Squash, Fresh Broccoli, Fresh Green Curly Kale, Scottish Cold Water Salmon Oil, Organic Virgin Coconut Oil, Raw Sea Kelp Powder (Laminaria japonica), Bilberry Powder (Vaccinium Myrtillus), Spirulina Powder (Spirulina platensis), Whole Milled Sesame Seeds, Wheat Germ Oil (natural vitamin E).

The breakdown is:

Typical analysis as fed:
Moisture: 64.20%
Protein: 14.70%,
Fat: 10.40%,
Ash (inorganic matter): 5.90%,
Fibre: 0.60%
Calcium: 1.20%
Phosphorus: 1.90%
Sodium: 0.10%

After the kibble was eliminated, their poo has been consistently hard and pellet like and neither of them drink as much water as they used to. Rosie could eat 200g to 300g per day according to the pack and I'm currently giving her 250g and I think she would want to eat a bit more but I will try 2 weeks at 250g and see how her weight does.

You can see the interest in their food at tea time (about 6). I don't know if it's hunger or excitement but I don't think they are less satisfied than when on their previous food.

[Oscar 12345]

That sounds like a great set of ingredients, I bet they are glad someone shot the previous chef. I wonder if/when you will see any physical differences in energy levels etc. and coat/skin condition.

[Dinkum]

Dean, is there a reason why you only use turkey and chicken? There's also lamb, duck, salmon and beef. I suspect the lamb and duck are fattier. I know the beef is smelly (the tripe I think) and the salmon I'm told is mushy. Also, do I need to give anything else? small bones like lamb ribs to knaw on or is the Nutriment complete?

No reason other than cost. I normally get an equal quantity of chicken and turkey. I add 4 chubbs of the Beef to change things a little. I have tried the salmon, but find it too wet for bearded schnauzers.

I buy my meat from a butcher, so I normally get them to chop up a lamb neck for me into small chunks. I give these to the boys once or twice a week. It's a tasty treat for them and it cleans their teeth.

They also enjoy broccoli, cauliflower, courgette and other veg. This is a treat again and strictly not necessary. They normally get slices off the ends or the stalks chopped up whilst I am prepping the veg in the kitchen. They have learnt if they sit in the kitchen door, then they get these treats. Come into the kitchen and no treats.

[Oscar 12345]

Well Sam you have convinced me. Having done my research I plan to change Otto to raw after Christmas. I am going to try Cotswold Raw, they are local and they do a sausage which I can slice as well as a large chunk mince, both complete meals. I am going to stick to varieties that are less than 10% fat. If any of our raw feeders out there have time to take a look and see anything that would worry them please do let me know.

https://www.cotswoldraw.com/active-sausage-80-20

I also have a question about bone. Is it ok to feed a meal with bone in everyday or should it be less regular.

[Schnauzer Sam]

I also have a question about bone. Is it ok to feed a meal with bone in everyday or should it be less regular.

I'm new to this game, as you well know Julie, but from my research the idea is to have about 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% offal with each meal. I had a look at Cotwolds Raw website and saw nothing there that would concern me. I noticed that they do include minced bone in all their complete meals which is what I'd expect.

Love to hear how Otto gets on.

[zeta1454]

Re the bone content - the percentages in Cotswold Raw sound fine as a general rule and you should not have any worries about there being bone in all the meals.

With some suppliers (and with some dogs) there may occasionally be an issue with too much bone for the individual and, if that is the case, the dog may show signs of being constipated and their poo being very dry and crumbly. Giving a boneless meal on a regular basis should help in those cases - raw green tripe or boneless mince is often an option with the prepared meals from most suppliers or, if not, maybe offer a home prepared minced meat meal or add more blended vegetables to one or more of the ready made meals.

[Dawnspell]

I doubt you'll have any ill effects other than adjusting what you give for poo consistency.

Now you have me worried Alison - my expectations were for smaller solid poos - am I wrong?

Sorry Sam didn't mean to worry you, just as others have said about bone content.