Assured Breeder Scheme

Information on finding your puppy, the Assured Breeders Scheme, the Kennel Club and issues relating to breeding your Schnauzer are dealt with in this section.
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Please do not discuss breeders or raise issues concerning breeders on the forum. This has created problems in the past and many breeders are not members and unable to defend any claim you may make.
stevenlisa
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by stevenlisa »

We went to see a GSD pup at an assured breeder at the weekend. OMG clearly the system has failed with respect of that breeder, which led to us just walking away. The pups were in very poor condition.
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BeeBee
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by BeeBee »

stevenlisa wrote:We went to see a GSD pup at an assured breeder at the weekend. OMG clearly the system has failed with respect of that breeder, which led to us just walking away. The pups were in very poor condition.
So,presumably you've reported this to the KC so you can make a small difference and get the scheme working as it should?
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countrygirl
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by countrygirl »

That's a good idea, it might prompt an inspection and lead towards better practices.
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stevenlisa
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by stevenlisa »

Absolutely, already done
cuchulain
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by cuchulain »

[quote You can also lobby through any breed club you are a member of for the tests to be made mandatory for members of the club who do undertake breeding. Maybe you are doing all this already? quote]

The breed clubs all have codes of ethics. I am a member of all the clubs but know of none that actually check that their members abide by their own codes.
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zeta1454
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by zeta1454 »

cuchulain wrote:[quote You can also lobby through any breed club you are a member of for the tests to be made mandatory for members of the club who do undertake breeding. Maybe you are doing all this already? quote]

The breed clubs all have codes of ethics. I am a member of all the clubs but know of none that actually check that their members abide by their own codes.
I am sorry if I was misunderstood here. The point I am trying to make is that the only way to effect changes is to pro-actively do something about those things you believe are wrong. Writing negative comments and sniping at organisations such as the Kennel Club and the breed clubs on the Schnauzer Forum may be a way to let off steam but ultimately it does nothing to improve those organisations and can be detrimental in that it could give people new to the dog world the impression that there is no point in going to either the Kennel Club or the breed clubs when looking for a puppy and they might as well nip into Dogs4Us or get one through the classifieds.

If you are unhappy with the way a breed club is run then work from within it to change it - there have been regular lively debates on a number of issues at the breed club AGMs I have attended on many issues affecting the breed. However if ultimately you feel the clubs are not representing the best interest of the breed then do not renew your membership. While there may well be the need to weed out those who do not follow the guidelines of the Assured Breeder Scheme and choose to ignore the code of ethics of their club at least those organisations are providing on-line publicly available codes of conduct that will let a new puppy owner know what to look for and what to expect when searching for a puppy.

For me the positive aspect of the Schnauzer Forum is that, as well as a day to day resource of photos and shared experiences, it is a great opportunity to advise and guide prospective schnauzer owners as to what they need to know about the breed and how to assess a good breeder. One of the ways can be to direct them to the readily available wealth of information on the Kennel Club site or through the breed club contacts which I have found in the past to be helpful with advice and experience when approached on this subject. Give prospective schnauzer owners the information they need to make their own judgements of the breeders they visit to purchase a puppy and maybe one day those informed choices will mean those who really care for their dogs and the health and happiness of the puppies they breed will be the ones who the public choose every time and puppy farmers and backyard breeders will be starved of their income.
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cuchulain
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by cuchulain »

Is the statement I made factually incorrect?
stevenlisa
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by stevenlisa »

cuchulain, I would agree your statement is correct. There are so many clubs & associations and people confuse them for being a symbol that a breeder has passed tests and inspections. At the end of the day it only means you have paid your membership fee and/or advert fee, this should be explained clearer to anyone looking for a breeder. They do not establish the breeder is reputable in any form
cuchulain
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by cuchulain »

stevenlisa wrote:cuchulain, I would agree your statement is correct. There are so many clubs & associations and people confuse them for being a symbol that a breeder has passed tests and inspections. At the end of the day it only means you have paid your membership fee and/or advert fee, this should be explained clearer to anyone looking for a breeder. They do not establish the breeder is reputable in any form
I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. Unfortunately the Assured Breeder Scheme has not evolved quickly enough to instigate checks for all, to ensure compliance with its standards. If it is to progress to a properly accreditated scheme that is recognized as such by the appropriate UK accreditation organization then there will have to be fixed time inspections and in between these, unannounced surveillance visits. However until that happens bad practice will continue. I am a member of this scheme but there are quite a few very good and reputable schnauzer (all sizes) breeders, who will not join until the issue of large volume breeders within the scheme is resolved.
My advice to prospective new owners (for what it is worth) is to contact the breed clubs for a list of breeders and then do your homework. Interrogate the breeder until you are satisfied that they meet your requirements,(remember it is your money).Be prepared to travel to get the best breeder, they may not be on your door step. When you do visit and are not happy with what you see, leave. Do not take your cheque book with you, limits the chance of an impulse purchase; if asked for a deposit send it when you have returned home. Likewise as an occasional breeder, I insist on a visit from prospective buyers and if I don't like what I see then quite simply you don't get a puppy from me - I tell them to their face. The costs will be greater but hopefully most breeders will have priced their puppies realistically.
Opinions will vary on what is written above but I re-iterate to prospective buyers, do your homework -observe, listen and make your own mind up.
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Robert Lockwood
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Robert Lockwood »

I got Maisie from an Assured breeder and in the Assured breeder puppy pack was a questionaire to fill out asking if we felt the standards of the scheme were been met we gave positive feedback and have recommended the breeder to several people. Surely if we and other owners gave negative or no feedback the K.C would reassess the breeder ? Therefore the scheme should be self regulating ? I would only now consider buying a dog from an Assured breeeder and now advise friends who are looking to buy a dog to do the same . The scheme is still in its infancy and really needs to be pushed more - maybe the K.C could put out advertising features in some of the popular monthly dog magazines for a start or even hooking up with the likes of Pets at Home to have flyers available near all the puppy products ?
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BBG
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by BBG »

I think the ABS is a good starting point for new puppy buyers. Even if it does nothing more than get people thinking where their puppy comes from, and gets them asking the right questions of the breeder. If a new puppy buyer is aware of the ABS, whether the breeder has been inspected or not, they will be expecting a certain standard before they arrive at a breeders to see puppies. Of course the next stage is not to let heart rule head and have the ability to walk away from a litter of puppies if something doesn't seem right.
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Grovelea
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Grovelea »

I am one of the people that Cuchulain has mentioned, I'm not in the Scheme, for the reasons she mentioned, recently someone came to me for help with grooming a Schnauzer puppy, they had gone to an ABS breeder, who opened the door put their puppy in their arms and said ' give the money to my husbamd because I have someone else coming in half an hour'. and that was that, the new owner had travelled many hours to get their puppy, no offer of the loo or cup of tea or anyinfo on the pup, they showed me the folder that they had recieved and I asked where the form was that they could give feed back to the KC, the lady said there had never been one, and they didn't know there should have been one. also there was a peice of paper saying how much the puppy was, but because the lady said she may like to show the breeder said it was an extra £100! this wasn't for a different puppy, but the same one she was going to have all along.
But, as others have said if you don't like what you see, don't buy and report them to the Kennel Club.
have the courage to stand up for what you believe to be right, even if everyone else is sitting down, as long as you are prepared to be hammered for it.
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Grovelea
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Grovelea »

Also forgot to say, the lady was told to pick the puppy up when it was 5 and a half weeks! :-o
have the courage to stand up for what you believe to be right, even if everyone else is sitting down, as long as you are prepared to be hammered for it.
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Donald
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Donald »

One of my giants came from such a breeder. She'd been one of their brood bitches. For 5.5 years.

Hold on!

Assured!

That'll be right!

Next time I'll do my own research and not trust any "official" body.

I know how badly damaged the girl was.

She's fantastic with the patients where I work - in a psychiatric hospital.

Probably because what happened to her was worse than most of what happened to the patients.
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Maty
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Maty »

Grovelea wrote:Also forgot to say, the lady was told to pick the puppy up when it was 5 and a half weeks! :-o
Sorry but you also have to wonder about the buyers, who would think that a pup this age should be leaving it's mother? Surely that would ring alarm bells.
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