Assured Breeder Scheme

Information on finding your puppy, the Assured Breeders Scheme, the Kennel Club and issues relating to breeding your Schnauzer are dealt with in this section.
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Please do not discuss breeders or raise issues concerning breeders on the forum. This has created problems in the past and many breeders are not members and unable to defend any claim you may make.
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by zeta1454 »

Maty wrote:Crikey, looks like they are making it harder for anyone to make money from breeding :-o Or do you think we are going to find more dogs are sold without a pedigree?
These changes only apply to the Assured Breeder Scheme members and not to any other breeder registering puppies outside the ABS. So dogs may still come with a pedigree but not under the AB Scheme. It is part of the KC's commitment to the Accreditation process and an attempt to indicate their acknowledgement of the criticisms that too few of the ABS members had actually been inspected. From 1 January 2014 it is intended that no member of the scheme can register a puppy unless recently inspected. If they have not been inspected they will have to leave the scheme or arrange an inspection prior to registering a liter.
Actually nowadays I think there are very few responsible breeders who are making any money from this - most have part time jobs and/or a partner with a full time jobs - especially of you breed small dogs where litters are of only 2-4 pups.

BBG wrote:My personal opinion is this will encourage puppy farmers to have more litters. And those that breed fewer litters will probably not become members of the scheme.

There is some controversy about whether the scheme is worth becoming a member of because the KC are not particularly fussed about who they give membership to. You pays your money and the KC will happily accept it!
Certainly the costs will have an impact on some breeders decision to becoming a member of the scheme although I personally do not believe it will change the commitment to good welfare and breeding practice of those who have the best interests of their breed at heart. People either are puppy farmers or backyard breeders with financial profit their only concern or they are breeding to improve and conserve the very best of the breed with welfare not financial gain as their priority. However whether or not puppy seekers choose to obtain their puppy from a member of the Scheme or not, I would urge them to check the ABS requirements as a guide to what to expect and demand from a breeder and if they find them falling short of this to walk away.
Hollypops wrote:In our search for holly I spoke to one assured breeder who told me "the money is nice!" :-s needless to say I didn't bother with him! I know there are very good breeders out there who breed few litters and don't bother with the scheme, my mother never bothered joining and she used to have 1 litter a year (cavalier King Charles spaniels) she retired in 2007 so the scheme hadn't been going very long then.
I too know of a number of excellent breeders who are not members of the ABS and, although I believe it is a scheme worth supporting, I respect their decision of course. As long as a good breeder is known and has people interested in buying well bred pups from them that is fine all round. I think the problem is more trying to find a way for people who do not know of good breeders to find out where they are and to have some confidence that the breeders they are approaching have made a commitment to good breeding practice. The Assured Breeder Scheme was intended to address this issue by providing puppy seekers with a list of breeders who were in this top level of breeding. Clearly the Scheme as it was did not do that in a number of cases and still has problems that need addressing but it does provide puppy seekers with the information on what to look for when they go to see a breeder and is working to ensure that more of the members are meeting the criteria by the introduction of mandatory inspections and weeding out breeders who are reported to being failing in their standards.

As regards the costs of belonging to the Scheme being passed on to puppy buyers and this putting them off purchasing a good quality dog, I am not sure this should really be issue. If the price of a puppy is raised I would expect it to be minimal and really anyone looking to get a healthy, well bred puppy that has been raised with love and care should be willing to see that reflected in the price they pay. Sadly too many people seem to look at price first and foremost and the speed with which they can get a puppy as priorities rather than being willing to wait for a well cared for pup and paying the reasonable cost for that. Considering that there is a market for four figure cross breeds and mongrels I would have thought price is not a major issue. Ultimately puppy farmers would not exist if there was no market for their product and they do not force anyone to buy their pups. Anyone looking to get a puppy needs to take responsibility for properly researching the breed, the breeders and everything necessary to make sure they do not line the pockets of backyard breeders (breeding one or several litters a year) and puppy farmers ( breeding on a commercial scale). Check the requirements of the Assured Breeder Scheme and see if the breeder you obtained your puppy from meets them, regardless of whether they are an ABS member. If they fall short walk away and if they are seriously failing and claim to be a member of the AB Scheme report them and have them removed from it.
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Caramomo »

Personally I think it's a fantastic step forward and has made me inclined to join the scheme when one day comes around and I return to breeding.
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by zeta1454 »

Since the introduction in January 2014 of mandatory inspections for all members of the Assured Breeder Scheme before they can register a litter of puppies under the scheme a number of the less good breeders have been removed from their lists. The inspections are pretty thorough and can take several hours or more even for those who may only be occasionally breeding at home.

This is good news and can give puppy seekers more confidence that if they go to an Assured Breeder who has been successfully inspected ( indicated by a green tick alongside their names on the Kennel Club website lists) they are likely to have the welfare of their dogs and puppies as a top priority and doing all possible to prepare the pups for their new homes.

It is also however important to bear in mind that some breeders who were members prior to being removed may still be displaying logos or other information on their websites that imply they are still members of the Scheme when they are not. Although good breeders may choose not to join and some may have decided to leave for other reasons, it is more of a concern if a breeder has actually been removed and is implying to the public that they are a member. In any event if you do see or are told by any breeder that they are a member of the ABS do check this out on the Kennel Club website. A website badge is available for those breeders with an online site which when clicked on will take you through to their full details on the KC website but if not do check their names there to be confident they are still a member. This is the link for the minis but you can search for ABS members for any breed:

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/servic ... +Schnauzer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If they do not have a green tick by their names it means they have not yet been inspected but does not necessarily mean there is any problem with their breeding practices. They may just have not yet needed to register a litter of pups as current ABS breeders who do need to register a litter are being prioritised for inspection (although over the next couple of years all members should have been inspected.)

You do need to know the actual names of the breeders as they register for the ABS scheme under their own names and not their Kennel name or affix. :)
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by SarahMiller21 »

Is it possible for puppies to be kennel club registered but the breeder not?
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by zeta1454 »

SarahMiller21 wrote:Is it possible for puppies to be kennel club registered but the breeder not?
The short answer is yes - basic KC registration is of puppies only although a breeder's name and address will be recorded too.

I know the Kennel Club registration system is often misunderstood - not really helped by the Kennel Club itself IMO :D

Anyone who breeds a litter of puppies where the parents are both KC registered themselves can pay a fee to the Kennel Club to have that litter registered. There are no particular checks other than that the names of the parents are listed on the Kennel Club register and there are no endorsements against either the dam or the sire to say their progeny cannot be registered ( the latter will be because the breeder of either dam or sire did not want the dogs used for breeding). There are some minimal welfare requirements the Kennel Club ask for but much relies on the honesty of the breeder and the system is open to criminal abuse as has happened recently with a breeder in Norfolk.

So Kennel Club (KC) registration of puppies does not really mean a great deal for a puppy seeker looking for a well bred puppy. Health tests are not required even in breeds where a health issue is identified such as the eye tests for miniature schnauzers. Puppies that are commercially bred and poorly raised are frequently Kennel Club registered as their breeders believe they can gain more profits from selling KC registered puppies as many people believe KC registration means the pups have been well bred when that is not at all the case.

It is the Assured Breeder Scheme where breeders are registered and it is members of this Scheme who are subject to inspection and for whom the welfare requirements are higher, certain health testing is mandatory and in some breeds where the breed clubs recommend other health tests too these are expected to be carried out in addition. It has much more demanding requirements and personally I would recommend anyone looking for a puppy ( unless they have total confidence in a recommendation or in someone they know ) to always go to an Assured Breeder,not because there are no good breeders who are outside the Scheme, but it will give you much more reassurance that you are going to a breeder who has been assessed by the Kennel Club, will have had to provide evidence of health testing before the litter is registered and will provide a Contract of Sale stating their obligations and responsibilities among other information.

I hope this explains it a bit - sorry if it is a long answer to a simple question too :D
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by SarahMiller21 »

Thanks zeta1454. We've just bought a puppy who was KC registered but the breeder was not but we went on recommendation. Jasper is our 2nd schnauzer, our first died aged just 11 months and I have since had the pedigree checked by the schnauzer club who believe he was a puppy farm pup even though there were no signs of this when we visited. He had an underlying gastro problem. So for that reason I would only ever go to an assured breeder or recommendation now. We learnt our lesson the hard way :(
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by zeta1454 »

Continuing my updates on the Assured Breeder Scheme as it is evolving still :)

As reported today in the Dog World, the following changes have now been made:

ABS members must keep records of all veterinary treatment their dogs undergo.
Puppies for sale must be inspected by a vet prior to sale.
Records of any veterinary treatments and examinations must be passed to the new owner.
Breeding records must be kept detailing:
Oestrus dates of bitches
Dates of mating
Details of sire
Whelping record - sex, date of birth, weight and description
Caesarean section ( if applicable)
Date/cause of death (if applicable)
Details of sale - date, name and address of new owners
Stud dog litters produced.

Changes are effective immediately but members have six months to become up to date with these new requirements if they do not already comply.

Rule 4.4 now reads: " Assured Breeders must permanently identify breeding stock owned or offered at stud by microchip, tattoo or DNA profile. This is checked automatically when litters are registered.
Puppies must also be permanently identified prior to sale unless otherwise advised in writing by a vet. The permanent identification of dogs must be carried out by a trained operator.

Where dogs or puppies are microchipped or tattooed the relevant number must be registered on a national database.

Rule 6.2 states: " Assured Breeders must ensure that the puppy has been inspected by a vet prior to sale and pass any record of veterinary treatment or examination to the new owner."

Currently as the KC recruits and trains more assessors, approximately 1,500 of the 7,554 members have passed an accreditation inspection and these are the members identified on the KC list by a green tick. Assessments are being expanded with ABS members looking to register a litter prioritised but clearly there may still be unchecked members of the Scheme who are not meeting even the current standards and hopefully these will soon be rooted out. In the meantime. If anyone has first hand knowledge of an ABS member falling badly below these standards do contact the ABS team with details. Breeders are being removed from the Scheme where they are found to be at fault.
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by BeeBee »

zeta1454 wrote: Currently as the KC recruits and trains more assessors, approximately 1,500 of the 7,554 members have passed an accreditation inspection and these are the members identified on the KC list by a green tick. Assessments are being expanded with ABS members looking to register a litter prioritised but clearly there may still be unchecked members of the Scheme who are not meeting even the current standards and hopefully these will soon be rooted out. In the meantime. If anyone has first hand knowledge of an ABS member falling badly below these standards do contact the ABS team with details. Breeders are being removed from the Scheme where they are found to be at fault.
And this is crucial to whether the KC Assured Breeder scheme is going to really provide any assurance. I hope it does, really I do as it's the only thing at the moment that the public can have any semblance of confidence in (even though it's far from faultless and not without critics). Without tougher legislation, which may well come in with the next government, it's pretty much a free-for-all at the moment in terms of what's going on in breeding. Self-regulation, voluntary schemes like this, all very well, but clearly not enough when we look at the massive problems that exist in the commercial breeding, selling and subsequent dumping of dogs in this country :(
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by zeta1454 »

it is important for anyone visiting breeder websites to be aware that unscrupulous individuals will claim ABS membership even though they are not members or have had their membership suspended or revoked. A genuine link on their website should be able to take you through to the breeders listing on the Kennel Cub Assured Breeder list - anyone can put up pictures but the link should help to clarify if they are indeed members. Members are listed under their names and not their affix ( Kennel Club name).

I would also urge anyone who is visiting or contacting an Assured Breeder in order to obtain a puppy to be absolutely confident that the breeder is meeting the requirements of the Scheme and if they are badly falling short of these to report the matter to the Kennel Club - action is being taken to remove poor quality breeders and many have lost their status since inspections were initiated last year.

I know that people do have varying standards in what they expect or are happy with in regards to how puppies are bred and sold. Personally I would not be happy with breeders who fall into any of the categories below:

They are breeding four or more litters in a year;
The whelping facilities are outside the home and whose pups are generally in a kennel environment rather than a house ( most especially for companion breeds such as the miniature schnauzer);
The pups are raised in sawdust pens;
There is no Contract of Sale or commitment of lifetime support and advice regarding the pups sold;
Eye testing and litter screening are not done;
The breeder is not raising the puppies with individual socialisation such as that outlined in the Puppy Plan:
http://www.thepuppyplan.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This list is not exhaustive but does cover some very significant areas.

Using the List of members of the ABS is a way to narrow down your search for a puppy and does offer the guidelines needed to assess the standard of breeding but ultimately puppy seekers must make sure they have the highest expectations of the breeder in regard to the health, fitness and welfare of the dogs they breed from and the pups they raise and, if they have any inkling that profit is the sole driving force of the kennel they are visiting - a cash crop with always plenty to choose from - and little ongoing support or guarantee to take back a puppy at any time in his or her life, then I would walk away.

Do not just trust to a flashy website or even a 'likeable' breeder with a gift of the gab. Look for the substance beneath the surface and make sure you are confident any claims made are fulfilled :)
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Janer »

zeta1454 it is important for anyone visiting breeder websites to be aware that unscrupulous individuals will claim ABS membership even though they are not members or have had their membership suspended or revoked. A genuine link on their website should be able to take you through to the breeders listing on the Kennel Cub Assured Breeder list - anyone can put up pictures but the link should help to clarify if they are indeed members. Members are listed under their names and not their affix ( Kennel Club name).
Just tried clicking on the Assured Breeder logo on 2 breeders I know are assured and inspected and the logo just took me to the Assured Breeder information page rather than to their individual listing......have I misunderstood your meaning?
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by zeta1454 »

Janer wrote:
zeta1454 it is important for anyone visiting breeder websites to be aware that unscrupulous individuals will claim ABS membership even though they are not members or have had their membership suspended or revoked. A genuine link on their website should be able to take you through to the breeders listing on the Kennel Cub Assured Breeder list - anyone can put up pictures but the link should help to clarify if they are indeed members. Members are listed under their names and not their affix ( Kennel Club name).
Just tried clicking on the Assured Breeder logo on 2 breeders I know are assured and inspected and the logo just took me to the Assured Breeder information page rather than to their individual listing......have I misunderstood your meaning?
The link should be an oblong image with the names of the breeder/s and the date up to which it is valid ( it will need to be renewed annually) and beneath the names and date it should say "Click to Verify" and this link should take you through to their individual page on the Kennel Club site not just the ABS general page. It should also have a UKAS badge to indicate they have been inspected under the scheme.

It is possible that bona fide members have just not updated their website as it would be up to them to do this but in that event, as long as you know the actual names of the breeders and their location in the UK you should be able to check on the Kennel Club website under Assured Breeders for their breed/s whether they are still members.
Hope that helps :)
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Janer »

It is probably as you say...they just have not updated their websites as both are definitely listed as inspected members. Thank you for the clarification though and for the other useful info. It all helps in the minefield that is puppy buying.
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Grovelea »

And I am the third breeder on the Giant Schnauzer list and I am not part of the scheme, I am not a puppy farmer, I just choose not to be part of the scheme
The mother of my pups has more health tests than required by the scheme my pups are reared in my home nd have had their first vaccination
I do not charge for their months worth of food and they are microchipped and insured I am sick of the kennel club frightening prospective buyers into
thinking that breeders who are not on the scheme are bad.
have the courage to stand up for what you believe to be right, even if everyone else is sitting down, as long as you are prepared to be hammered for it.
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Nika C »

Grovelea wrote:And I am the third breeder on the Giant Schnauzer list and I am not part of the scheme, I am not a puppy farmer, I just choose not to be part of the scheme
The mother of my pups has more health tests than required by the scheme my pups are reared in my home nd have had their first vaccination
I do not charge for their months worth of food and they are microchipped and insured I am sick of the kennel club frightening prospective buyers into
thinking that breeders who are not on the scheme are bad.
Purely out of curiosity, why do you choose not to be part of the scheme?
As I say, pure curiosity to hear your thoughts, not trying to stir or 'get at' you.
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by zeta1454 »

Grovelea wrote:And I am the third breeder on the Giant Schnauzer list and I am not part of the scheme, I am not a puppy farmer, I just choose not to be part of the scheme
The mother of my pups has more health tests than required by the scheme my pups are reared in my home nd have had their first vaccination
I do not charge for their months worth of food and they are microchipped and insured I am sick of the kennel club frightening prospective buyers into
thinking that breeders who are not on the scheme are bad.
As the Assured Breeder Scheme is run by the Kennel Club it is inevitable that they will promote it to prospective buyers who are novices to puppy buying and may have little idea where to source a puppy that has been raised with welfare as a priority. However on their website they do make it clear that a puppy seeker should be looking for breeders who fulfil certain requirements whether or not they are members of the ABS:


"As a prospective new owner it is understandable to want some kind of reassurance that you are purchasing a pedigree puppy from someone whose priority is the health and welfare of the puppies that they breed. Someone who will provide you with a quality, supportive and informative service both before and after you take your puppy home. One way to do this is to contact a Kennel Club Assured Breeder. The scheme promotes good breeding practices, giving prospective owners the best opportunity to bring home a healthy, well adjusted puppy. As a puppy buyer there is now some kind of benchmark to help you in your search to find a responsible breeder.

While the Kennel Club Assured Breeder Scheme is a good starting point for people wanting to find their way in the sometimes tricky process of choosing a puppy, it is not the only route to finding a suitable breeder as the Breed Clubs and Societies are also an excellent resource."



"Kennel Club Assured Breeders and other responsible breeders should do the following:
Follow recommended breeding guidelines
Make use of health screening schemes, such as testing for hip problems and eye conditions, which will help owners to predict the future health of their puppy (N.B Assured Breeders MUST use the health schemes)
Ensure the puppy is seen with its mother, to give an indication of how the puppy is likely to turn out
Be prepared to answer your questions about the breed
Give new owners written information regarding the socialisation and training of the puppy
Be there as a point of contact throughout the puppy's life to ensure that the dog and owner have a happy and fulfilling relationship
If a breeder doesn't follow these guidelines and if the puppies do not appear happy and are not kept in good conditions, then look elsewhere.

Breed Clubs
Breed Clubs will also recommend dog breeders to you and contact details for these clubs can also be found in the Breed Information Centre.

What to expect from a breeder
The breeder should give you the opportunity to see the puppy with its mother and the rest of litter. This is very important because it will not only give you an opportunity to see the temperament of the mother, but may also give you an idea of the future characteristics and size of the puppy
Have the opportunity to see all the puppies and be able to handle them, rather than just seeing the puppy being offered to you
It is the responsibility of the breeder to register the litter with the Kennel Club and each puppy in the litter will initially be registered in the breeders' name. The breeder chooses the official Kennel Club names for all the puppies
Under normal circumstances, litter registration with the Kennel Club takes about 14 days, after which time the breeder will receive the registration certificates for all the puppies in the litter. If there is a query with the application the Kennel Club will contact the breeder to resolve and further action may be required which may delay the registration process
If the dog is advertised as Kennel Club registered you should ensure that you take receipt of the Kennel Club Registration Certificate. You must then proceed to apply to the Kennel Club to transfer your dog into your own name. Please be aware that you will require the signature of the breeder to complete this. If the registrations certificate is not available at the time of purchase, ensure that you receive an undertaking in writing from the breeder that this will be sent to you when available
A responsible breeder will provide background on socialisation they have already provided to your puppy and advice on continuing work in this area when you get home. Ideally when you choose your puppy, try and find a litter that have been raised in a house as similar to yours as possible (so with children if you have children, in a noisy environment if you have a noisy house, with cats if you have cats etc). If your puppy has come from a breeder who follows the Puppy Socialisation Plan, you already you know that he has had a good start in life, and so you know he is well on the way to making a perfect addition to your family. If your puppy is from a breeder or rescue and hasn't had the advantages of the Puppy Socialisation Plan start in life, don't panic. Just start today and follow the Puppy Socialisation Plan from now on in order for him to get the chance to catch up with a lot of the things he has missed.

What to ask the breeder
A Contract of Sale - it is recommended that the breeder provide you with this. Amongst other things this should detail both the breeders' and your responsibility to the puppy. The contract should also list any official Kennel Club endorsements (restrictions) that the breeder has placed on the puppy's records, and in particular on what basis the breeder may be prepared to remove the endorsement. Endorsements the breeder may place on your puppy include not for breeding and not for export. Before or at the time of sale, you must give a signed acknowledgement of any endorsement placed


Written advice on training, feeding, exercise, worming and immunisation
A pedigree detailing your dog's ancestry - this could either be hand-written or a printed pedigree from either the breeder or an official one from the Kennel Club
Copies of any additional health certificatesfor the sire and dam
Just like humans, some breeds of dogs can be affected by inherited conditions. The Kennel Club and the British Veterinary Association offer three canine health schemes, which aim to detect and monitor certain inherited conditions. It is important that you are aware of these conditions and know the right questions to ask of breeders before buying a puppy. There are also some DNA tests now available for certain breeds. Visit our Breed Information Centre for breed specific health information
Ask which vaccinations your puppy has had and which ones are still required......."
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud


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