Assured Breeder Scheme

Information on finding your puppy, the Assured Breeders Scheme, the Kennel Club and issues relating to breeding your Schnauzer are dealt with in this section.
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Please do not discuss breeders or raise issues concerning breeders on the forum. This has created problems in the past and many breeders are not members and unable to defend any claim you may make.
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Caramomo »

Those changes sound positive and should really help the scheme become more robust and a better indication of quality breeders, especially if they follow up with the inspections of breeders causing concern. Good to hear they are still tightening up the scheme.
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by hula-hoop »

zeta1454 wrote:Just thought an update on the Assured Breeder Scheme (which is continually evolving) might be worth highlighting. The Kennel Club have now achieved their goal of gaining official accreditation for the Scheme from the UK Accreditation Service and in order to do so have made many amendments with some 'suggestions' to breeders now being made requirements including e.g. the need for puppies to be checked by a vet before going to a new home or for the new owners to sign as part of the obligatory sales contract that they will have the puppy vet checked as soon as feasibly possible after purchase and for extensive records to be kept detailing matings/whelping/births/details of new owners/ health tests/ any deaths of pup or bitch / microchip or other identification details etc and these records to be kept for a minimum of ten years.

Much of the Scheme is as it was previously in terms of health and welfare requirements but they have tightened things up a bit and perhaps most importantly for potential puppy buyers: every new member of the Scheme will be inspected before they are accepted and all current members will be inspected within 3 years. Checks will continue randomly especially where concerns have been raised through feedback from puppy buyers. Priority regarding inspections will be given to those who breed more frequently and the Kennel Club will be asking members to let them know when their next litter is planned. Members who have undergone a successful inspection will receive a certificate containing the UKAS logo and will be identified as having been inspected on the KC website.

More information can be found on the Kennel Club website:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/4842/23/5/3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would like to add that I know many criticisms have been hurled at the Kennel Club and also at the Assured Breeder Scheme (with justification at times) however it is a move in the right direction and it is only by working to support efforts to tighten up on dog breeding that any changes will brought about. There is no professional body or organisation in existence from the Church to social work, teaching, the law and the Health Service where poor practice, negligence and at times horrific crimes have been committed by individuals within those organisations abusing their position and disregarding the ethics, policies and standards of their profession but no-one would suggest abolishing the health service, the police or the Church because of this. It is only by constructive criticism and working to eradicate abuses that a difference will be made to any and all organisations.


You make a good point there - bad things happen in any set up...and the thing is they must be learnt from to try and stop it happening again, and to improve practice for the future. It sounds like this is exactly what the KC are trying to do by making these positive changes. I like the idea that they will inspect breeders regularly, and randomly where there is cause for concern. Sure some people will still have issues with it, but what do they suggest as an alternative?
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by BeeBee »

I've read a thing on my Facebook newsfeed today that is so disheartening. A breeder in West Sussex who operates this business http://jennyspoochpalace.co.uk/contactus/, selling a large number of different breeds of dogs including schnauzers (we can all decide if we think that's a sign of a good breeder or not) has been given KC Assured Breeder accreditation and is listed on the KC website under French bulldogs http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/servi ... est+Sussex

I know someone local to us who bought a miniature schnauzer bichon cross from her at around £800 a couple of years ago, fortunately he's turned out to be a healthy, happy chap, but there's no way he was bred onsite, she went out the back, got him from a shed and handed him over.

So disappointing to see how easy it is to gain accreditation, the KC really do need to do more to have any real credibility in terms of promoting healthy breeding and making puppy farming untenable in this country. It is very hard to avoid the glaring conclusion it's all about the money and not the health of the dogs X(
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Dawnspell »

BeeBee wrote:I've read a thing on my Facebook newsfeed today that is so disheartening. A breeder in West Sussex who operates this business http://jennyspoochpalace.co.uk/contactus/, selling a large number of different breeds of dogs including schnauzers (we can all decide if we think that's a sign of a good breeder or not) has been given KC Assured Breeder accreditation and is listed on the KC website under French bulldogs http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/servi ... est+Sussex

I know someone local to us who bought a miniature schnauzer bichon cross from her at around £800 a couple of years ago, fortunately he's turned out to be a healthy, happy chap, but there's no way he was bred onsite, she went out the back, got him from a shed and handed him over.

So disappointing to see how easy it is to gain accreditation, the KC really do need to do more to have any real credibility in terms of promoting healthy breeding and making puppy farming untenable in this country. It is very hard to avoid the glaring conclusion it's all about the money and not the health of the dogs X(
Is that because they just have accreditation for French bulldog so they are then selling the other breeds on that one accreditation ? ie the French bulldog pups may have been bred to guidelines then they don't care about the other breeds but people think they are good because of the accreditation from the kennel club ? The kennel club accreditation is meaningless for a cross breed isn't it ? I wouldn't have taken notice of the accreditation if I was buying crossbreed as it goes against "breed standard" of the kennel club.
I had always assumed anything to do with kennel club was good until reading the items on the forum. Just outlines the importance of visiting breeders before choosing a puppy. AND joining a great forum :))
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by BeeBee »

In my view KC Assured Breeder accreditation shouldn't be anywhere near any breeder selling puppy farmed dogs even if they just also happen to breed another breed onsite. For the KC to have any semblance of credibility in this regards should be as far away from dealers in puppy farmed dogs as they can get. Sadly that is not the case.
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Neuanfang »

The KC seem to be registering everything if there's a fee to be had! I think they have (or are going to) set up a register for designer breeds!
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by zeta1454 »

BeeBee wrote:I've read a thing on my Facebook newsfeed today that is so disheartening. A breeder in West Sussex who operates this business http://jennyspoochpalace.co.uk/contactus/, selling a large number of different breeds of dogs including schnauzers (we can all decide if we think that's a sign of a good breeder or not) has been given KC Assured Breeder accreditation and is listed on the KC website under French bulldogs http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/servi ... est+Sussex

X(
Have just checked the KC Assured Breeder lists for French Bulldogs and this breeder is no longer listed. There are no ABS breeders in West Sussex for French Bulldogs. As this appeared to be the only breed she had ABS status for I am hoping this means she is no longer plying her trade under that logo.
Neuanfang wrote:The KC seem to be registering everything if there's a fee to be had! I think they have (or are going to) set up a register for designer breeds!
While I do actually have a great deal of sympathy with your view regarding designer dogs/crossbreeds the Kennel Club do have a minimum health & welfare standard for registering puppies. They will not register puppies if:

The dam has already whelped 4 litters (as of the 1st January 2012 the limit changed from 6 litters to 4 litters). As of this date the Kennel Club will no longer register any further litters from any bitch which our records show has already whelped 4 litters. Therefore for any litter born on or after the 1st January 2012, the system will automatically check to see how many previous litters the Kennel Club has an account of. Where the number previously recorded is 4 or more, the application will be rejected, or
The dam has already reached the age of 8 years at the date of whelping, (relief from this restriction may be considered normally provided an application is made prior to the mating, the proposed dam has previously whelped at least one other registered litter, and the application is supported by veterinary evidence as to the suitability of the bitch involved in the proposed whelping), or
The dam was under one year old at the time of mating, or
The offspring are the result of any mating between father and daughter, mother and son or brother and sister, save in exceptional circumstances or for scientifically proven welfare reasons, or
The dam has already had two litters delivered by caesarean section, save for scientifically proven welfare reasons and this only normally provided the application is made prior to the mating, or
The dam was not resident at a UK address at the date of whelping.
If either the dam or sire are endorsed with progeny not eligible for registration (i.e. that there is a restriction on file at the Kennel Club that prevents any puppies from being registered). Please refer to your owner certificate if you are unsure, the endorsement will be clearly displayed.



One of the reasons there was an upsurge in 'designer crossbreeds' was to evade these requirements as an unscrupulous pedigree dog owner who wanted to breed more litters from their bitch or avoid the other regulations in place could do so by mating e.g. their labrador with a poodle and (whereas in past years these cross-breeds would have been free to a good home) suddenly without KC registration to worry about they can command extortionate prices for dogs that may also not have had any health checks done. If, by offering KC registration the breeders of these dogs can be required to abide by the same rules it may have some benefits. At least the breeders of crosses would not be able to say they were not KC registered because it wasn't allowed. It is a big 'if' I know but, for all its failings KC registration does provide some minimum protection. Puppies with no KC registration papers could have been bred with absolutely no consideration for health and welfare at all.
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by zeta1454 »

A new introduction by the KC Assured Breeder Scheme is the website badge which (unlike the ABS logo which was open to being hijacked as an image to put on anyone's web page) is a small 'badge' to be displayed on the website of any breeder who is a member of the ABS scheme. It still has the ABS logo but attached to it is an extra 'certificate' with the name of the breeders and when their membership of the scheme is due for renewal. By clicking on this badge you will be taken through to the Kennel Club's page of the breeders - giving their names, contact details, location, which breeds they have registered and whether they are also members of a breed club. This should ensure that the website displaying the badge is a legitimate ABS member. Should anyone be removed from the Scheme during their period of membership this link will quickly provide a way of checking that they are no longer members.

This is a new initiative being introduced alongside the MyKC website which was flagged up the other week so it is still possible that bona fide ABS members have not got round to putting their badge on their website but ALWAYS check on the Kennel Club website if you have any doubts about a breeder claiming to be a member of the scheme with just a logo on their own website. And of course make your own checks as to whether they are complying with the ABS standards if you go to visit them for a puppy.
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Maty »

It really does sounds as though they are trying to improve things :-bd

But I wouldn't know about the clickable badge without reading this, I wonder how that can be advertised to the wider dog buying community?
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by zeta1454 »

Just to give a mention to the scheme again for anyone new to the Forum and to highlight the Kennel Club's new website which is a lot more user friendly than the old one. They now have quite a bit more information on the Scheme here:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/breedin ... mendatons/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And some information on the policing of the scheme which explains what they currently do and the need for anyone whether a puppy buyer or concerned member of the public to inform them of individuals who are not complying with any of the requirements of the scheme.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/breedin ... he-scheme/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you have not explored the Kennel Club website yet anyway it is with a visit as there is a huge amount of useful information on a whole range of topics there. :)
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by zeta1454 »

I thought it was worth adding to this thread the most up to date developments as regards this evolving Scheme. Breeders already registered with the Assured Breeder Scheme will have recently received a letter from the Kennel Club informing them that:

"From 1st January 2014, all Kennel Club Assured Breeder Members will be visited by the Kennel Club as a UKAS accredited certification body.This assessment visit is required prior to any further Assured Breeder Scheme litter registrations being accepted. "

Anyone on the Scheme who has not recently had a visit will be required to arrange for an inspection before being able to register any puppies under the Scheme from 1 January 2014.

This does come with a rise in fees to ABS members at the same time. The KC state that the costs of maintaining the ABS membership scheme including a 3 yearly inspection is currently in excess of £200 per member per year. Up to now the fee to join the Scheme has been £15 annually. This is now set to rise to £30 this year, £45 the following year and £60 by 2016. However they are offering an Associate Membership which has all the same responsibilities on the breeder but if they breed say once every couple of years or less, they can pay a reduced annual fee of £12 but must pay £167 for the mandatory inspection.

I hope that the mandatory inspections now confirmed does signal an on-going move in the right direction although, as with all schemes, there will be critics from all sides looking to pick holes in it :( but I have added the information here not to open any kind of debate (on this particular thread at any rate) but simply to keep the current information on the Scheme here up to date :)
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Maty »

Crikey, looks like they are making it harder for anyone to make money from breeding :-o Or do you think we are going to find more dogs are sold without a pedigree?
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Hollypops »

If this pushes the price of pups up from assured breeders people will be more inclined to go elsewhere. :(
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by BBG »

My personal opinion is this will encourage puppy farmers to have more litters. And those that breed fewer litters will probably not become members of the scheme.

There is some controversy about whether the scheme is worth becoming a member of because the KC are not particularly fussed about who they give membership to. You pays your money and the KC will happily accept it!
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Re: Assured Breeder Scheme

Post by Hollypops »

In our search for holly I spoke to one assured breeder who told me "the money is nice!" :-s needless to say I didn't bother with him! I know there are very good breeders out there who breed few litters and don't bother with the scheme, my mother never bothered joining and she used to have 1 litter a year (cavalier King Charles spaniels) she retired in 2007 so the scheme hadn't been going very long then.
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