Avoiding the irresponsible breeders

Information on finding your puppy, the Assured Breeders Scheme, the Kennel Club and issues relating to breeding your Schnauzer are dealt with in this section.
Forum rules
Please do not discuss breeders or raise issues concerning breeders on the forum. This has created problems in the past and many breeders are not members and unable to defend any claim you may make.
Post Reply
User avatar
zeta1454
Moderator
Posts: 5136
Joined: 19 May 2011, 16:58
First Name: Leigh
Dog #1: Magic
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Born: 20 Apr 2010
Dog #2: Trilby
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Born: 15 Mar 2012
Dog #3: Pip
Born: 21 Feb 2014
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Location: North Yorkshire
Contact:

Avoiding the irresponsible breeders

Post by zeta1454 »

With the "Schnauzerfest" fundraising weekend approaching, it seems a good time to highlight some of the ways to avoid becoming part of the problem where irresponsible breeding is concerned and help reduce the number of dogs and puppies suffering hereditary and other illnesses which require ongoing and costly surgery as well as distress and pain to the schnauzers affected...and who may be surrendered to shelters as a result.

So much information is now available online to guide anyone thinking of buying a puppy and ( even though there will be many who prefer to use the internet to shop for puppies rather than to research how to source the best breeders) something as simple as checking a dog's hereditary eye health test results before getting a puppy from a particular breeder can be done via the Kennel Club website and MyKC. If someone is looking for any type of dog, the Kennel Club website has lots of information and guidance, but, for anyone looking for a purebred dog such as any of the three schnauzer breeds, the Kennel Club site should certainly be the first place to look - at the breed details, health issues, how to find a breeder, how to raise a puppy etc etc..

From those individuals who decide to have one litter from their pet to the licensed commercial businesses who have 200+ breeding bitches and 50+ stud dogs, most irresponsible breeders should really be easily identifiable as not the ideal source of a healthy well bred puppy. Family pet dogs should be raised with love and care from healthy, good temperament parents who are used to living in a house not an outbuilding or kennel, who participate in holidays, outings and other activities with their human and canine family members and enjoy early training and socialisation with a range of people and other animals. Any relevant hereditary health testing should be carried out on the parent dogs and the puppies - in the case of miniature schnauzers, this means annual eye tests for Congenital Hereditary Cataracts, Hereditary Cataracts and Progressive Retinal Atrophy for adult dogs being used for breeding (for puppies just the first of these). The tests can only be carried out by one of the 40 BVA eye specialist vets and a certificate supplied on the day to the breeder with the results of the adult tests being in due course published on the Kennel Club website under the registered name of the dog concerned. It is not enough for a general vet to look at the eyes of a puppy or dog, it must be a full ophthalmology test and will be certificated.

So many poorly bred schnauzers suffer hereditary eye problems as a result of breeders failing to have their breeding dogs tested or having a single test at a young age and then not again; of failing to check whether any related dogs, siblings, offspring etc have had a positive test for a hereditary condition or simply not caring and continuing to use the stud or bitch regardless of the fact that they have produced one or more affected puppies. Anyone looking for a miniature schnauzer puppy ( or who knows anyone thinking of doing so) should always make sure they have the full registered names of the parents of the litter before agreeing to take a puppy so they can check online whether they have had the relevant eye tests ( within the 12 months before mating) and should refuse to take a puppy without certified confirmation of the parents' eye test and a certificate of the litter screening for Congenital Hereditary Cataracts. These are costly, painful and distressing conditions which every responsible breeder and concerned puppy buyer should be trying to avoid by using, at the least, the publicly available information on the Kennel Club website.

In addition to the certified eye test results for the parent dogs and litter screening certificate for the puppy, potential puppy families should be looking:

1) To see the mother and her pups together, hopefully from at least 3-4 weeks of age and suckling, playing together.

2) To be given details of what socialisation and house training has been done with the puppy before it leaves for its new home. To raise a puppy well requires time, knowledge, love and commitment 24/7 for two months or more (throughout and after the birth). It cannot be done adequately by anyone without knowledge, time or the ability to devote that amount of care to the growing pups and therefore, for those very reasons, IMO rules out any breeding establishment producing over four litters a year whether licensed or not.

3) To be given the paperwork to transfer the microchip details for the puppy into their name. It is illegal for anyone to sell a puppy of 8 weeks or over ( whether rescue, re-home or new puppy) without it being microchipped and also illegal if a new puppy is not registered initially in the breeder's name.

4) A detailed contract of sale with full details of the puppy including registered KC name, hopefully an endorsement against breeding, and the commitment to take back any puppy at any time in its life if the family purchasing it are unable to continue to care for it.

It can be worrying when planning on introducing a new puppy to your home that you do not end up supporting irresponsible breeders but just for a start these simple checks outlined above will at least give you some assurance that you are not being drawn into sourcing a new canine family member from the worst kind of breeder / dealer.

A few useful links:

The Schnauzer Club of Great Britain web link re eye health issues:

http://www.schnauzerclub.co.uk/health.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Kennel Club Health test result finder:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/service ... fault.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My KC:
https://mykc.org.uk/register.aspx?utm_s ... =kcwebsite" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BVA eye test specialist vets:
https://www.bva.co.uk/Canine-Health-Schemes/Eye-scheme/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Puppy Plan:

http://www.thepuppyplan.com/the-science ... _uTb3R4Wf0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud


https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/C ... 916994967/
User avatar
Eddie
Member
Posts: 5304
Joined: 07 Jan 2008, 17:35
First Name: Graham
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Re: Avoiding the irresponsible breeders

Post by Eddie »

Thanks for a very informative post Leigh.
I've made it a "sticky".
Graham, Judie, Eddie (19-03-07 to 25-07-12), Mouse, Daisy and little Reilly. Image
User avatar
zeta1454
Moderator
Posts: 5136
Joined: 19 May 2011, 16:58
First Name: Leigh
Dog #1: Magic
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Born: 20 Apr 2010
Dog #2: Trilby
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Born: 15 Mar 2012
Dog #3: Pip
Born: 21 Feb 2014
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Location: North Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Avoiding the irresponsible breeders

Post by zeta1454 »

I thought it would be a good idea to add to my post above a few additional warnings as regards puppy seekers being aware that some large commercial breeders or dealers do use family home "fronts" to sell puppies that have been bred in poor quality circumstances or in overseas puppy mills.

It is vital that puppies are bred and raised in a home environment if they are to be living as family pets and, as more people are beginning to avoid any establishment that is clearly breeding on a large scale or raising litters in barns, sheds or outdoor kennels, the owners of these places and dealers in imported puppies are increasingly using stooge "breeders" to sell their pups from a family house. However, just because an advertisement states that puppies are home reared or they are being sold from a family house this does not necessarily mean that the pups have been reared there.

Some of the points I mentioned above will still help to identify circumstances where the seller is not actually the breeder as often a middle person selling on pups bred elsewhere will not have the in-depth knowledge of grooming, health and nutrition that a good breeder would have or be able to discuss personality differences between puppies etc. However, even if they can discuss these points, you will also want to be sure to see the mother of the pups interacting with their litter and to be confident that a dog you are shown as the dam is likely to be the mother (swollen teats from feeding them is an obvious physical sign). You will also need to see where the pups have been raised - whelping box, playpen for older pups etc. and also, depending on the age of the litter when you see them, photos or video clips of the puppies from their early days. In this era of social media and smart phones /iPads / tablets with inbuilt cameras there is unlikely to be anyone who does not have access to a camera and any breeder that loves and cares about their puppies will have countless images from soon after the birth onwards to share - whether they do so privately or on a public Facebook page, Instagram or website.

Do be wary of anyone who is posting photos of litters of pups or individual puppies on social media ready for sale with no parentage details / early development photos or any means of confirming where these pups have been born and raised. Do also be aware that just because someone posts cute pictures of puppies for sale on their Facebook page or other social media site this does not mean that they are reputable breeders or that the photos are actually of their dogs/puppies and not stolen from another breeder's site, or that they are not simply selling on puppies on behalf of a dealer for money. Fraudsters are very plausible so do all you can to confirm anything you are told and not just "take their word" however pleasant the seller may be.
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud


https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/C ... 916994967/
User avatar
Donald
Member
Posts: 2142
Joined: 07 Dec 2011, 14:27
First Name: Donald
Dog #1: Chester
is a: Black Giant Dog
Born: 01 Mar 2012
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Avoiding the irresponsible breeders

Post by Donald »

Just to add to this, I'm trying to track down a probably non-existent person who is fronting for a puppy mill in the US. The photo of "Mom" was a five year old photo of Dieta who managed the incredible feat according, to this ad, of giving birth to a litter 32 days after her death and 5 years after her breeding bits were removed.

Also advertised as AKC registered which the AKC was fascinated by - and very annoyed.

Here's the ad. Dieta is in the bottom left. Needless to say the multiple ads for that litter are long gone now. the centre right picture which also claims to be "Mom" is an entirely different dog.

Image
User avatar
zeta1454
Moderator
Posts: 5136
Joined: 19 May 2011, 16:58
First Name: Leigh
Dog #1: Magic
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Born: 20 Apr 2010
Dog #2: Trilby
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Born: 15 Mar 2012
Dog #3: Pip
Born: 21 Feb 2014
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Location: North Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Avoiding the irresponsible breeders

Post by zeta1454 »

So sorry to read that, Donald. It is despicable how some people steal other people's images for their own profit but must have been especially heartbreaking for you to see this not long after the passing of your beautiful Dieta. Hope you can track down whoever was responsible x


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud


https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/C ... 916994967/
Post Reply