Re: Second Puppy Regret

The Miniature Schnauzer is a smallest dog in the Schnauzer breed and originated in the mid-to-late 19th Century from Germany. The Miniature Schnauzer is a cross between the Standard Schnauzer and other smaller breeds such as the Poodle. A miniature Schnauzer is a spunky, but aloof dog who does things their own way. They tend to be good guard dogs without the tendency to bite.
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SweetGeek
Posts: 1
Joined: 02 May 2021, 14:27
First Name: Stef

Re: Second Puppy Regret

Post by SweetGeek »

Hi,
This is my first time posting here but I hope you can help.
I honestly do not know what to do for the best.

We have a wonderful nearly 2.5 year old black male Schnauzer and last weekend we brought home a 9 week old S/P boy.

We made sure the introductions was outside, they get fed in separate places (pup in Pen and older dog in normal place), we try to have one on one time with them but they just constantly look and listen out for the other and pup cries if not with the older one amd older one will then look for pup who is crying.

I know its extremely early days and I already feel like I've failed by even writing this post but we wonder if we've made a huge mistake.

They seem to go from playing together nicely to the pup basically terriorising the older dog.
The older dog was always a happy dog, his tail was never down but now, about 40% of the time is down :(
We got a pup as a friend for the older one but it just feels like we've upset the balance too much.

Pup will sometimes stand in the middle of the room and the older dog will not walk past him as he doesn't want to be jumped on.

Our older dog has quietened down so much we wondered if we continue, will we loose our old wonderful dog completely to a shell of a dog who we don't recognise?

My husband wants to give the pup back to the breeder, just to get back to where we were before changes to the older dog become permanent.

At times I agree with him but other times, I feel we should wait abit longer to let them settle in more, but I'm worried and what if we don't agree?! We've said we'll wait another 1-2weeks to see if we can see any improvements but is that going to be enough time?

Sorry for the essay and jumping about but any thoughts and guidamce to help navigate this, would be amazing!

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zeta1454
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Re: Re: Second Puppy Regret

Post by zeta1454 »

Hello Stef and welcome to the Forum :)

It is never certain when getting a second puppy that there will be a bond between them and the resident dog. Sometimes it is a question of time for both to work out their relationship together and sometimes that will be a close one and sometimes just mutual tolerance so not snuggling or playing together but no hostility or aggression between them. The problem for you and your husband is to some extent whether you want to work on trying to get both your dogs relaxed with each other which may take time or, for the sake of both the puppy and your older dog, you decide to return the puppy to the breeder which, if this is a serious option for you is better done sooner than later for the puppy’s sake. Some breeders will keep a puppy that has been returned which is probably fine but some will move it on to another home and this can be unsettling for the puppy and lead to problems in its next home. I would say giving the puppy back should be a last resort but it must be thought through really seriously and agreed by both you and your husband with no uncertainty about the decision.

Puppies can be little monkeys in their behaviour towards other dogs, especially if they have been a dominant pup in their birth home. Usually a good natured adult dog will gently but firmly put a puppy in their place if they are getting out of hand but if your older dog doesn’t have this kind of temperament he may be intimidated by the pup. It sounds as though both dogs are interested in each other from the fact that you say the puppy wants to be with the older dog and he is concerned if the puppy cries and that they play together nicely initially. I would intervene and take the puppy away if he starts to get too boisterous and let him have a rest as he may just be getting overtired. Although they are fed separately, are they apart at other times? With a new puppy, I would not leave it wandering, playing or even sleeping outside a playpen or crate when I am not supervising, training etc. Once the puppy has learned the household routines and is mature enough to be trusted not to misbehave outside his playpen you may find the relationship between your two dogs improves.

You will need to work on getting your puppy used to being apart from the older dog without crying. Do they sleep in separate rooms / crates?

Without knowing in detail how you have been organising your daily routine, I would try to have the puppy in a playpen for any periods when you are not interacting with him yourself - play, training or short supervised play sessions with your older dog, if both dogs are happy to play. Play sessions should be short and closely watch for any sign that the puppy is getting over-excited or over-tired and that is a signal he needs to rest in his pen. Have safe chew toys and a bed for him to settle down in his playpen - it is a place to rest not a punishment. Your older dog must always have somewhere safe and quiet to go to be away from the puppy - another room, a crate, a sofa or whatever - but you don’t want him to be in any situation with the puppy that he feels intimidated or even just fed up with the youngster!

With some dogs a bond happens straight away when they meet, with others it builds up over time - they really are not that different to human children or adults in that respect. It is a big step in a puppy’s life leaving its birth family and going to a new home where there are so many different rules and routines to learn. It is also a big change for a resident dog that has been an only dog in its human family to suddenly have a new puppy join the home. A new puppy can tire out a resident dog especially in the early weeks as the older one tries to adjust mentally and emotionally to the changed family dynamic and this can make them seem quieter and less animated than they were before but this is something that will pass as they become used to each other. Mental and emotional challenges can be more exhausting than physical ones at times!

I wonder if you had high expectations of the puppy and your other dog being best buddies and now things seem not quite what you thought that it seems a worse situation than it actually is? Focus on getting the puppy bonded with you and your husband - socialise the puppy as much as you can and take him out in your arms or in a buggy on his own so he learns that he has time away from your other dog. You don’t want him to become dependent on the older dog rather than becoming his friend. Let the dogs play together if both want to but at this early stage in settling the puppy in, I would not worry too much about this. Try to keep routines the same as before for the older dog and spend time going out or playing with him too, without the puppy. It is rare for dogs not to get along with each other in a family but the nature of their relationship is never certain. I feel from what you have written that everything will work out fine for both puppy and older dog in time but ultimately you know the dogs best and must make the decision you feel is kindest for them in the future.
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud


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Oscar 12345
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Re: Re: Second Puppy Regret

Post by Oscar 12345 »

Great advice from Leigh, you are very brave to post and I admire you for it, please don't be too hard on yourself, I think after the first week with a puppy I have the "what on earth have I done thoughts". Whatever you decide, I do wish you the very best of luck.
Man cannot survive with wine alone...
we also need a schnauzer.

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mikegoodson1
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Re: Re: Second Puppy Regret

Post by mikegoodson1 »

Sorry to be late with this one but we had a similar situation when we introduced a puppy (Sasha) when our boy (Oscar) was just over two. Admittedly we introduced a female into our house when we already had a boy (whereas you have introduced a boy with a boy already there). We also had this vision that they would love one another and be best chums. To be honest we are pretty much there.

Sasha loved Oscar when we brought her home but Oscar wasn't impressed. He was the only dog in the house, with all of the attention and suddenly he had to share.

It took around 2-3 weeks for Oscar to be happier around Sasha, over this time we obviously kept a constant eye on them but we didn't separate them at all. They ate together (at the same time), went out together (garden and walks), went up to bed together (with us). I know some people suggested keeping some alone time for each of them but our position was that Sasha wasn't going back to the breeder, so we needed them to bond, so we forced that a little.

Even now, some three years later, my wife and I often comment that Sasha loves Oscar more than he loves her BUT they do love one another. They play and importantly, Oscar backs and protects Sasha, so we have our pack of four (myself, my wife, Oscar and Sasha).

Personally and I appreciate it's easier for me to say, I would say stick with it. I'm sure they will get on and find some common ground.

Good luck but please be patient.

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Schnauzerluv
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Re: Re: Second Puppy Regret

Post by Schnauzerluv »

This is 15 years ago, but we brought in a female puppy Chelsea when our male mini Snoop was 1.5 years old. They were never vicious with eachother, and I don't remember Snoop correcting Chelsea, but he would move away when she tried to snuggle with him. They never really played crazily, more like tugging on each end of a toy, mouthing eachother while laying down on their sides (we called it lazy play), but they never fought either, no guarding, no issues. We fed them together, took them to the same places, went out together, slept together (in the livingroom on the sofas).

I have no idea if we did it properly, but luckily it worked out for us. When we lost Snoop at a fairly young age, Chelsea didn't skip a beat and soaked up all the love as a sole pup.

Now that I know more about dog behaviour, I would have gone about it a little differently maybe, but I know if I saw the puppy annoying the adult dog, I would remove puppy and give him/her a break. Adult dog needs to know you have his back, you'll still keep him comfortable and keep him included/involved in the family like before as much as possible.

flugelboneman
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Re: Re: Second Puppy Regret

Post by flugelboneman »

Hell hath no fury like a Schnauzer puppy. They are nutso! I recall we joined an off leash dog walking group when Dismas our Std Shnauzer was only 6 months old. He was like a whirling dervish, demanding that every dog pay attention to him, jumping, running and generally acting insane. i believe now he was just being a schnauzer puppy. It was not working so I withdrew from the group. When Dis was a year old I returned to the group. He will ever be an alpha dog, but it clear that he gauged his playmates more carefully, determining which dogs were interesting in roughhousing. Of course the bigger the better. He held his own with labradors and shepherds, most 50 lbs heavier. Bottom line, he will grow out of this bumptuousness, or at least be more considerate of dogs who are not quite as energetic. Stick with the little guy.

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