One very happy Schnauzer but should we get a second...?

[TimDoyle]

We've had a our mini since 2012 and have often discussed "shall we get a second?"...dirty feet and wet winter walks have usually swung the arguments against...but we're back there again discussing the subject, perhaps a little more seriously this time.

Monty's 5yrs 5months and is an absolute delight. He's not left alone, so we don't need another for company. Our concerns are upsetting a very happy boy and changing the home dynamic detrimentally. Thoughts and experiences most welcome.

Another question......
Monty is "in tact" and don't want to change that - we don't want to breed him.
So if we went for a second what should we do, another dog or bitch ?

Many thanks in advance for any wise words and/or personal experiences.

Tim

[mikegoodson1]

I'm very keen to hear replies as I am in the same position and considering another mini - our boy is coming up for 2 and is not intact, I was still thinking of getting a girl as a companion rather than another boy as I think they will get on better.

Again, I have the same concerns over upsetting him by introducing a companion.

Thanks,
Mike

[Al T]

This vid link was shortly after we got Ruby back in 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2HaFggqyh0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From my point of view it's brilliant to see them so happy together; Norman was happy by himself but there seemed a definite fulfilment to his life once he had a pal.

Norman was neutered

We took Norman with us to pick up Ruby...they were fine from the moment they met

Can understand your worries / concern though

Hope it all works out fine..

Regards

Al.

[carolinh]

We got May, aged 5 after we'd had Daisy, by the aged 8 ish, for 3 years. They were fine within a week, Daisy was a bit put out for a few dogs. However...mine are both female and both neutered. I think you need to hear from someone else with an intact male because it could be more complex. Best of luck, having 2 is great.
Caroline

[TimDoyle]

Thanks for the replies!

As Caroline intimated one of our concerns is aggression from Monty towards any interloper! He's a very relaxed dog and doesn't really do aggression ever, but our fear is that a second dog may significantly change his world in a way that causes him to change. Maybe this doesn't happen and dogs just accept the change once it's clear it's permanent.

[Dinkum]

Hi tim

it is a tough decision deciding on a 2nd. We have two intact males living with us. We got them 14 months apart. I won't go into the time and financial implications of a second dog, as this is the easier part to work out.

Rupert was a happy, well adjusted dog when we decided to get Watson. Our thoughts were that Rupert could do with the company and so we proceeded. We went to see Watson as a 4 week old puppy and, with the agreement of the breeder, we brought one of his blankets home with us, so that Rupert could get used to the smell. When we collected Watson, we had dropped Rupert off with the in-laws, so that Rupert could meet the new addition on neutral territory. The introduction went as expected, lots of sniffing, a little growling from Rupert and Watson just lay there whilst Rupert asserted himself. Nothing aggressive, just Rupert being bossy.

Within a week, things had settled down and Watson was happily swinging off Rupert's beard. Rupert would have the odd growl to tell him to stop. We also crated Watson in order that Rupert could have some time out too. This worked well as the older dog will want to rest more, whereas the pup has limitless energy. Separating them for down time was invaluable.

Today, they are both happy, well adjusted dogs. They don't fight, travel well together and will sleep together on the same sofa. There is the occasional growl from one or both or them where the other gets in the way. There is often the rather loud play fighting with lots of barking, chasing and running around. We put a lot of effort into feeding and ensuring that there was no jealousy around food bowls, snacks and treats. Today, either of them will finish their food and wait until the other walks away from their bowl before going in to check if anything was left behind. We don't have fights over food, or anything else for that matter.

However, I think Rupert would have been a happy dog on his own and, in hindsight, did not need the company. He is very much his own dog, even in the park. More often than not, he will walk past other dogs and simply ignore them. If Watson is away for a weekend with the other half, Rupert doesn't seem to notice. Rupert is quite independent, compared to Watson.

Watson, on the other hand, is much more dependent on Rupert and will mimic Rupert's behaviour. Pee on the same spot, sniff the same area or investigate the same dog. Watson is also more clingy and in need of attention all the time. If Rupert is away, Watson seems down and I think there is more of a one way bond between the two. Watson is also more of the dominant dog, although that may be down to Rupert being tolerant and wanting a quiet life.

In hindsight, I would not have got the second dog, seeing as how Rupert's personality has developed. I don't think he needed the company and was already quite happy in himself. Your decision is going to depend very much on your current dog's personality. Having said that, we love both of them and couldn't imagine life without both of them.

Watson misses Rupert, but I don't think the reverse is true. This may be an issue for you as your dog is older and there may be issues when the older dog crosses the bridge and there are separation issues.

Lastly, I would not recommend introducing a bitch into a house with an intact male. It will not be fair on him. You would have to keep them separated whilst she was in season, so they would have to be separated for up to 2 months every year. You'd need the time and space to manage that. Even after the bitch has been spayed, there may still be issues with the dog wanting the mount the bitch. Rupert can misbehave when there are bitches around, regardless of whether they are spayed, in or out of season. I think having two dogs or two bitches is far simpler to manage, than having a mixed pair.

I have two intact males living happily together. I think it would have been a very different scenario had we opted for a bitch.

Lastly, getting a second dog is rewarding, they learn quickly from having the other dog in the house, but you will need to manage them for the first few months as you establish boundaries between them and your family.

I love both boys, they each have unique personalities and they love us back in different ways, but I would not get a second dog again, based on how Rupert's personality has developed.

Happy to answer any other questions.

[Robin black mini]

Quote..


"I would not recommend introducing a bitch into a house with an intact male. It will not be fair on him. You would have to keep them separated whilst she was in season, so they would have to be separated for up to 2 months every year. You'd need the time and space to manage that. Even after the bitch has been spayed, there may still be issues with the dog wanting the mount the bitch. Rupert can misbehave when there are bitches around, regardless of whether they are spayed, in or out of season. I think having two dogs or two bitches is far simpler to manage, than having a mixedpair.

......so very true...been there and done that and would never do it again..

I love having two dogs..they play well together,they are company for each other...provided you can cover added vet costs,food and grooming etc for two and train the pup separately so it doesn't bond too closely on the other dog and not on you..
Like you i had uncomplicated,happy ,single dogs and this was for my first ten dog owning years..then I decided to add another to the mix,more for the dog than for myself...
I then went on to have had paired females for the past fourty years..no issues..
So when one of my my last St poodle girl pair died,I was left with a spayed ,older female...I wrote to the breeder of my dreams for another female pup,but was only offered a male...which I accepted ..and honestly,I regret not trying elsewhere for another female..how our lives have changed.
The old girl passed on when my male was 2 years old,intact...
I brought in Robin,my mini schnauzer...and at six months she came into season.
My hub and I were well prepared to let Robin have one season before she was spayed ( at nine months) and we thought things would return to normal.we lived separate lives,one upstairs with one dog,the other downstairs with the other..how they each howled for each other.for a whole three weeks..!!!!..I got shares in hair colourants,the grey hairs merited it!!!
It was like a switch went on for my male poodle...he has become much more aware. of ALL female dogs..he marks more outdoors on his walks..tries to lick urine..and is more male dog assertive( not aggressive ,but can growl to " protect" Robin)...what I am saying is my mellow boy went out the window after robins first ( and only) season...
So,I would take into context these comments...either stay as you are..or add a mellow male pup..and be prepared to neuter the underdog in time...( not the dominant of the pair of males)
Or neuter your boy before the female pup arrives and you should not have any issues ..this would allow you let let the female have one ,or better still,two seasons before she is spayed...better for her development,and less risk of jpost spay incontinence.. ( is your head spinning yet.? Lol)
Or get a female and get her spayed after the first season( best if you have a relative to board one or the other for about six weeks...to cover preseason hormones too) and hopefully all will go swimmingly.
Or adopt an older ,spayed female and I bet that would be the easiest option.

[mikegoodson1]

It's been interesting reading the comments. Oscar is younger than Monty as well as being neutered and like I said in a previous post, we are also considering a companion for him.

Like Monty, Oscar is a great boy, well behaved and mostly obedient. I take him out for plenty of walks and we play loads together too and so I believe he gets all the exercise and fun he needs.

However when out walking he loves playing with other dogs, he will run across a field just to have a play (and he will come back to me when I call/whistle him) and hence my thoughts that as much as I play with him he would love the company of another dog. And being young himself (nearly 2), introducing a puppy would be fine as Oscar still has loads of energy. I was thinking of a bitch companion as I was worried with a male puppy coming into our household intact, he may try and establish himself over Oscar as Oscar is so easy going. Maybe that would not happen.

I know it's our call at the end of the day and there are other financial considerations but it's a tough one. I certainly don't want to introduce a companion for Oscar only for him to get jealous that all the time I spend with him would be diminished whilst we train/bond with a new puppy and then to resent his companion!

Decisions, decisions!

[TimDoyle]

A very big thank you for all your thoughts, experiences and wise comments - clearly we have some thinking to do...will let you know what we decide

Tim

[TimDoyle]

So we've thought about this a great deal.....

Elliot arrives next Saturday!

[Al T]

Brilliant...good luck

[zeta1454]

Great news - look forward to seeing photos


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[mikegoodson1]

Great news, also looking forward to seeing the photos.

We also decided to take the plunge and go to visit our 'potential' girl on Nov 11th - I say potential but know that once we see her, we will be smitten!

[Donald]

Simply. Yes!

Swampy lost his matriarch in November last year. He's never been the same since.

My mother's Westie died in April. So I'd leave Swampy with her on the strict understanding that she'd never try to put him on a lead. As he weighs more than she does..

But..

All he did was sit at her front door and cry for me.

For 9 hours.

[TimDoyle]

Well Elliot was collected from the breeder on Saturday and he’s happily ensconced at home. Photos to follow once I’ve rembered how to login and upload to photobucket (seems a little old fashioned not to be able to post images directly...)

Elliot seems very happy and very excited to be here. We’ve had a few accidents but that’s only to be expected. He seems a very socialable boy and is very inquisitive about his new surroundings.

Monty on the other hand is decidedly cheesed off! He refuses to interact with Elliot apart from growling at him if he evades his space, which is often. We’re keeping our attention on Monty and he gets everything first, be that greetings, meals, treats, playtime, etc.

Hopefully Monty will settle to the idea of Elliot being in his house, I guess it’ll just take a little time and perserverence on our part.