Unsocialized mini schnauzer

The Miniature Schnauzer is a smallest dog in the Schnauzer breed and originated in the mid-to-late 19th Century from Germany. The Miniature Schnauzer is a cross between the Standard Schnauzer and other smaller breeds such as the Poodle. A miniature Schnauzer is a spunky, but aloof dog who does things their own way. They tend to be good guard dogs without the tendency to bite.
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Captain
Posts: 3
Joined: 07 Jan 2019, 23:48
First Name: Jenny
Dog #1: Captain Rogers
is a: P/S Mini Dog
Born: 09 Sep 2018

Unsocialized mini schnauzer

Post by Captain »

Hello,

My name is Jenny, we have had a mini schnauzer named Captain for 10 months now. We did not do puppy classes, and I now regret that. Because this question may be asked, he has been neutered. He is a sweet sweet dog. We love him very much, and we are reaching out because I have read so many helpful supportive comments on this board that I thought I would post for some help of my own.

Captain has one dog friend (another mini schnauzer) that he plays wonderfully with. However, he does not seem to like any other dogs we encounter. If we take him on a walk, and he sees another dog in the distance, he keeps and eye on them, but does not bark, if we get closer you can tell he begins to get anxious. If we become within 20 feet of them he barks, and wines, and seems to want to go play, but if they get closer he gets more anxious and he will bark, (he does NOT hide behind me, he will bark directly at them and the hair on his back will rise up) until we are far enough away that he feels comfortable again, and then see seems to wine again as if he wanted to play.

We just tried our first puppy class today, and it didn't go so well. He would not stop barking, and the instructor thought it best if we do one on one classes so we dismissed our self from the class (but if you ask me, I would have to say it was pretty mutual between us and the instructor LOL). The instructor was wonderful about it, and I did not feel bad at all, I actually had a feeling this would be the out come.

Our question is this:

How do we get Captain socialized without him being able to be in a class with other dogs? We are at a loss, and need some input.
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zeta1454
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is a: P/S Mini Bitch
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Born: 15 Mar 2012
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Born: 21 Feb 2014
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Re: Unsocialized mini schnauzer

Post by zeta1454 »

Hello Jenny and welcome to the Forum :-)

There are some dogs that are always going to be less sociable than others just as not all people want to be sociable with every other person they meet so it is not a necessity for Captain to want to play with other dogs apart from his best friend. However, you do want him to be relaxed around them and, if he really does want to play but is anxious, it would be great to be able to let him do so.

I would not worry at this stage about the class not working out as it is late in the day for a puppy class if Captain is about a year old (?) and if you have specific issues to deal with you do need the very best trainers / behaviourists and sadly these are few and far between in my experience.

I really would recommend a new book which I mentioned in a previous post regarding "reactive" dogs as it is a fresh look at the subject and an easy to read book which looks to change the way we cope with behavioural issues in our dogs. It is called 'Your End of the Lead" by Janet Finlay and I think this would offer you much useful information and guidance.

You mentioned that Captain has been neutered, there is a possibility if this has been done at a young age (before a year old) that this may have not helped if he is by temperament anxious around other dogs. There is nothing that can be done now of course and don't fret about it (I am not criticising the decision) but it is a factor that may need to be taken into account as reducing or removing essential hormones especially before a dog has matured mentally and physically can affect their development behaviourally.

If Captain is a sweet natured boy and gets on well with people and has a special doggy friend to play with too, I would try not to worry too much about the other dogs but do have a look at the recommended book. Try to keep Captain at a distance he is comfortable with from stranger dogs for now and, if you take some tasty food treats with you on walks, you can use these to reward him for staying calm while they walk past.

It can sometimes be difficult to interpret canine behaviour such as barking and even the hair rising up on his back. He is clearly uncomfortable with the situation but have you had any experience of Captain off lead with other dogs apart from his special friend? Dogs, even those who enjoy play with other dogs, can often be more agitated or unsure when meeting new dogs if they are on lead. The fact that they may feel unable to get away if the situation gets scary means the adrenaline will be pumping and they are more likely to bark or lunge at the other dog to keep back. This may not be the case with Captain but have you had the opportunity to allow him off lead in a safe space with other dogs? Miniature schnauzers do bark and do get excited very easily in my experience especially on lead but can often be much better when allowed to run free with others in an enclosed / safe space where they have control over how much distance they want or need between themselves and other dogs.

There is a link here regarding the book I mentioned above which is available through Amazon:

https://www.yourendofthelead.com
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud


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Oscar 12345
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Joined: 02 May 2017, 11:28
First Name: Julie
Dog #1: Oscar RIP Sweety
is a: P/S Mini Dog
Born: 21 Dec 2002
Dog #2: Otto
is a: B/S Mini Dog
Born: 04 Jul 2017

Re: Unsocialized mini schnauzer

Post by Oscar 12345 »

Hi Jenny and welcome to my world..... the good news is that you can resolve this with Captain but it does take time and you need to be armed with information and help. I won't go into great detail but my Otto had loads of doggy socialisation and puppy classes when he was younger, I didn't spot the signs at first not having had a reactive dog before but at around Captain's age I realised we had a problem caused by I have no idea what and he was very anxious and uncomfortable around dogs. It is probably more complex than the fact that Captain didn't go to puppy class. I have just read the book that Leigh has recommended and it is very good for the owner as there is a lot in yourself that you have to learn/change that will lead to having a more calm and relaxed dog and a calm and relaxed Mum. The equipment is important, I turned one corner when I got a good fitting harness with a double clip, front and back and a training leash with two slips. There was an immediate change in the way I was handling him and helped me be relaxed with a loose lead as much as possible. There is a chapter in the book about handling the leash - it is really important. Then there is the method you use. I use treat/trigger and find it. Dog sees the trigger or thing that makes him nervous and you immediately treat no matter what the distance, over time the dog sees the trigger and expects the treat, throwing the treat to the ground is really good if you have a dog like a schnauzer that likes to sniff. There will be a threshold within which your dog will become anxious, it is really important to know that threshold and it does change depending on how anxious he is (how many dogs he has seen, did he pass a cat, what there a scary noise somewhere etc. etc.) and for an anxious dog these triggers do stack do the point that even if there are no dogs around he may be well over his threshold for remaining calm and making the next sighting of a dog very frightening for him. Then, which is the stage Otto and I are at there are the "managed" socialisation walks. Managed because you need the right type of dog and you need to be disciplined on what happens on the walk. This helps the dog get relaxed in reasonably close proximity of other dogs without needing to be nose to nose. This is strategy/plan to deal with the problem and it definitely works in my experience but don't expect overnight success and do expect set backs from time to time. I would recommend you find a good behaviourist/trainer as I have just outlined some of the things I do and a good trainer will put a plan together with you and help you every step of the way. I have finally found a good one having had two not so good ones. She has helped with 1-1's, is managing the socialisation works with her stooge dog and 3 other and also has training classes for adult dogs. She is wonderful and at my first session with her I just cried at the end of it with absolute relief because she made me feel so positive about the whole situation. I would also add that you don't need to worry about Captain not meeting any dogs, just manage the walks calmly, distracting and avoiding dogs so that you have some time enjoying calm walks building confidence in Captain. To repeat, it does not matter why Captain is like this, what does matter is learning about how to help him and getting help yourself so that you can both enjoy life outside. You are certainly not alone and you both just need a bit of help and pointing in the right direction. Good luck.
Man cannot survive with wine alone...
we also need a schnauzer.
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Schnauzer Sam
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is a: P/S Mini Bitch
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Re: Unsocialized mini schnauzer

Post by Schnauzer Sam »

Hi Jenny,

Is Captain insured?

The reason I ask is that my dogs are insured with Petplan and I had a behavioural issue with Rosie. She was referred to an APBC therapist who gave us a 4 hour consultation and then sent a report to us and the vet on a programme to overcome the issue. Petplan picked up the whole cost (less the usual £100 excess). Your insurer may well do the same. The two key points are the vet referral - you can't self refer and the therapist must have a professional qualification for the insurance company to recognise the referral as being of benefit.
Country Girl at Heart (Molly) 8 April 2003 - 22 December 2018

You're never alone when you own a schnauzer

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Captain
Posts: 3
Joined: 07 Jan 2019, 23:48
First Name: Jenny
Dog #1: Captain Rogers
is a: P/S Mini Dog
Born: 09 Sep 2018

Re: Unsocialized mini schnauzer

Post by Captain »

zeta1454 wrote: 15 Jul 2019, 06:46
It can sometimes be difficult to interpret canine behaviour such as barking and even the hair rising up on his back. He is clearly uncomfortable with the situation but have you had any experience of Captain off lead with other dogs apart from his special friend? Dogs, even those who enjoy play with other dogs, can often be more agitated or unsure when meeting new dogs if they are on lead. The fact that they may feel unable to get away if the situation gets scary means the adrenaline will be pumping and they are more likely to bark or lunge at the other dog to keep back. This may not be the case with Captain but have you had the opportunity to allow him off lead in a safe space with other dogs? Miniature schnauzers do bark and do get excited very easily in my experience especially on lead but can often be much better when allowed to run free with others in an enclosed / safe space where they have control over how much distance they want or need between themselves and other dogs.
Thank you for your post! And for deleting all my other posts LOL. Sorry for that, I did not understand I needed to wait. I thought it was a problem on my end :)

In regards to your quoted section above, I have been given this advice from others as well. We have a friend with a puppy Captains age, and they would love to work with us in letting Captain play off lead with him. Some advice I was given is that if we are nervous about Captain biting, we could use a soft muzzle for his off lead play session. I am not sure how I feel about this advice. Could I get your opinion on this issue? Thank you again!
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zeta1454
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Posts: 5136
Joined: 19 May 2011, 16:58
First Name: Leigh
Dog #1: Magic
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Born: 20 Apr 2010
Dog #2: Trilby
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Born: 15 Mar 2012
Dog #3: Pip
Born: 21 Feb 2014
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Location: North Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Unsocialized mini schnauzer

Post by zeta1454 »

Hi Jenny,
No worries about the extra posts :-)

Do you have a reason for thinking that Captain would bite? Has he done so before - not puppy nipping but aggressive biting? If you have a real fear of this, then a Baskerville muzzle or possibly a soft muzzle is a safe solution as it would be with any dog that has shown biting aggression towards dogs or people when out walking.

However, if it just that you are nervous because Captain seems aroused and defensive when he sees other dogs on lead, I would not necessarily think a muzzle should be necessary. Generally speaking dogs bite only as a last resort - from fear, when they feel trapped or constrained so they cannot escape confrontation or from pain, when they are injured or unwell and afraid of being hurt. The concern I would have (unless you are really worried he would bite) is that if you start off now with a muzzle you will either have to always muzzle him or you will face the same anxiety/ dilemma at the point that you decide to let him interact with other dogs without the muzzle. How would you judge it was OK to remove it?

Maybe have Captain on a trailing long line rather than a lead if you are anxious when he has his first off lead play session with your friend's puppy so that you can catch it up and restrain him if it does look as though there would be a problem to start with. Are you meeting up on neutral ground or at your friend's home? Some dogs can be more territorial on their own "home turf" so a meeting at a safe play park or at your friend's home if her puppy is friendly and sociable might be better than bringing the new playmate to your (Captain's) home.

Another suggestion (if your friend's pup is easy going with other dogs on walks) might be to try "parallel walking" where you take Captain out on a lead walk with another placid, calm dog walking with you. Sometimes the presence of a relaxed companion dog can help reduce anxiety in the less confident dog but you do need to be certain they both are happy in each other's company of course and that the companion dog is going to remain calm when it sees other dogs too!

Depending where you live, there may be a local schnauzer walking group nearby. A number of groups have been set up in different parts of the country where schnauzer families (mostly mini schnauzers) get together every so often for a group walk in a dog friendly place. Usually these do involve off lead walking and can give an opportunity for less socially confident dogs to meet others of the same breed and for the families to share experiences and advice if needed. We have found the walks we have attended to be very friendly and supportive and schnauzers do seem to be more confident with other schnauzers as compared to different breeds or types of dog. Some groups can be contacted via Facebook and there are also some links on the Forum under the Organised Walks section.

I am sure that Captain will be fine to meet and play off lead with other sociable dogs if the meeting is managed carefully and start on a one to one basis so that you also feel confident. The more positive experiences you both have, the better you will both feel about meeting new dogs but, for the present, when Captain is on lead you will have to work on reducing his reactivity and this may take more time and more work on your part to build up his self confidence and lower his defensive behaviour on everyday walks. Until you are more confident, try to avoid situations where Captain does feel threatened and keep to a distance from other dogs that he is comfortable with.
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud


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