Diabetes

[sue+lex]

Hello I don't come on here as often as I should but it has always helped me in the past from the wealth of experience you all have with Schnauzers ...My Girl Lexi is 11 in a couple of weeks time and has been diagnosed today with Diabetes she hasn't shown any clinical signs till last Monday when she started drinking a lot and weeing for Britain by Wednesday she was dribbling when she lay down and wet hr bed a few times so we made an appointment to see the vet today (earliest appointment) she is insured till October but I can't see them renewing her policy as it isn't a total life policy and we have been told that the treatment can cost between £2k and £4k a year ..My husband is disabled and a pensioner I work part time and his carer so money isn't easy come by and I am stressing tonight how we will manage.. She is my salvation my love and I can't bear the thought of not having her around and if we couldn't afford her treatment after her policy runs out how could you justify killing her which is what it would be ..I am crying as I write this as I don't know how to cope with that scenario.. We walk a lot which I love mine and her time alone she comes everywhere with us and at this moment in time you would think there was now't wrong with her she loves everybody and everything she has kisses for all at the vets and if she doesn't get one she does her woo woo woo's tilll they give her a cuddle she really is precious .. Sorry for all this ...Sue x

[Maty]

Sorry to hear this Sue and I am sure experienced forum members will be along shortly.

I do know that you can buy the medication much cheaper online (if she needs insulin) but you need a prescription from the vet first. try to get them to give you one that covers a long period of time so that you don't have to pay too often.

Also keep a close watch on her eyes, many diabetic dogs can develop cataracts fairly soon after diagnosis.

Keep in touch, we are here to support you if we can xx

[redalert]

So sorry to hear your sad news about Lexi, I can't give any advice regarding this, Alison - Morgana99 I am sure would be able to give you plenty of advice, as Kate has said, do keep in touch, sometimes just knowing there is someone to talk to really does help you get thro the really tough times, sending hugs and positive thoughts to you and Lexi

[zeta1454]

So sorry to hear about Lexi and, as said above, I too have no experience with a diabetic dog and hopefully some Forum members who have dealt with this issue will be able to offer some specific and useful advice. It is a heart-breaking situation to be in when you feel that you cannot afford to treat your dog for a condition that is not immediately life threatening but I am sure that with support you will see a way through this for yourself and Lexi that does not involve euthanasia.

As mentioned, if you can buy the insulin and needles through an online veterinary supplier you will probably save a large amount of money and managing diet can be done effectively at home - preferably raw but home cooked if you cannot do raw feeding (some vets promote expensive "prescription" diets which are neither helpful nor necessary for dogs for a range of conditions ).

I think the greatest demand is the time and attention that is needed to monitor a diabetic dog and ensure regular insulin and the costs if you can get products and testing kits etc independently of the vets will certainly be reduced. See if you can get an accurate breakdown of costs from your vet to give you an idea of where you can perhaps save money and which items are the most expensive. The quote of between £2k and £4k is actually a very big difference between the two figures and not that helpful to you without a breakdown of what this means.

Sending hugs and positive thoughts and I am sure you will get lots more advice over the next few days

[sue+lex]

Thank you so much Zeta,Redalert and Maty for your replies I was over reacting a bit yesterday I think in a much more positive mood today had a really good visit to our Vet who I must say has bent over backwards for us we had an hour and half consultation today and we have learn't how to inject Lexi and he said if we join the pet club for £9.99 a month we get 20% off all her medication plus loads more extras the cost of her treatment is estimated at £75 ish a month which we can afford and if our insurers will pay till her policy is up in October (the vet thinks they will renew) that will help lots too so happy with that...
She has to be admitted for the day a week Monday to have tests to see if the right dosage is being given and to see how she is responding so all being well she will be as good as can be expected for a long while yet..She is such a happy little wonderful girl and so brave she didn't flinch when the vet me and Bern were sticking the needle in her this afternoon(just once each nothing in it)She is my salvation in that I can forget everything when we go on our walks she comes everywhere with us and has travelled all over the country and nowhere has been a problem to her I just love her so much..Thank you again and I will keep you posted on how she is doing Sue x

[Maty]

Gla to hear things are much more positive today

Is that a glucose curve she is going in for?

[sue+lex]

Yes it is I gathered it's just to monitor how she is doing on the dosage they are giving her, she is on 5 not sure if this is mg I am a bit concerned about tonight though as she had her injection at 7.30 pm but on reading the instructions given by the vet we are warned that she may go floppy after 6 -12 hours and if so to give her a product with a sugar content but we will be asleep then otherwise it means staying up all night with her don't know if this is advisable or not probably will though very tired as she has been getting me up at 3 am ish to go outside...

[redalert]

Hi again Sue, so pleased to hear you are feeling more in control of things today, life sure is a bitch at times. Take each day as it comes, and it's good to know your vet is working with you, that always helps. Try to stay positive for your lovely girl, unfortunately they pick up on your down moments, as you say, they are what makes life worth living aren't they, so much better than people! That's my opinion anyway, sorry if this offends some people, thinking of you and Lexi ;)

[Morgana99]

Hi Sue, so sorry to hear of your worries and sorry I didn't come on sooner, I've been flat out with our B&B as its Hay festival time, now over, but still catching up. If you search for threads on Diabetes, you will find several from me that include my fears on diagnosis and the fab advice I received from other forum members who have been through this. I felt the world was against us when not just one, but both of my boys were diagnosed last year. I'm so fortunate we do have great insurance and I won't lie, we have been through a torrid time in the past 12 months or so as it isn't always an easy condition to control in dogs. For the moment, it seems we have turned a corner for the better
I'll put some more coherent thoughts together and add more tomorrow. For the moment, just wanted to wish you & Lexi all the best xx

[sue+lex]

Oh thank you all again for your support and advice I did stay up last night with her we cuddled on the sofa ..I am going to swot up on the threads on diabetes and Thank you Morgana99 how awful 2 of yours getting I bet you were distraught at the time hard work I bet too... Lexi is quite bright in herself especially if she knows she is going out or visitors come you would think there was now't wrong with her but when just me and Bern here she sleeps a lot the worst part of it is she can't hold her wees and does it in her sleep and then she gets worried as she is obsessively clean but I think we have reassured her that is not a problem I have baby changing pads everywhere as we are very naughty and let her on the sofa's well you can't stop her now can you ..I take her out every 2 hours to relieve herself and that is helping she has only had one small dribble today so far the crunch will come Thursday when I am back at work... Anyway enough of me babbling on..Thanks again will post again soon Sue x

[Gina]

Hi - I don't know if it would help until you get Lexi's meds and wee output under control but I have seen both female and male dog incontinence pads and pants online.


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[sue+lex]

Thank you Gina I will have a look at those ...I have been reading your topic Alison and my that must have been so stressful for you ...How often do they have to have the Glucose curve done? I was assuming it was a one off at the start of treatment ...Will be back soon Sue x

[Morgana99]

Hi Sue

Yes, apart from the obvious worry, particularly with Alfie who got it first. Then there is the day to day impact. Every dog will be different, but the following are my observations & comments that may be of help in terms of knowing what to expect. Please feel free to ask any questions and/or to PM me any time

1. Most obvious initial symptoms are the excessive drinking and consequent frequent need to urinate. With Alfie, he would hold on as long as possible and then leave us a puddle on the floor if he could wait no longer at night or if we were out for too long. With Duke, he gives an emergency bark & one of us has to come & let him out. At worst, this was happening 3 or 4 times in the night, which is exhausting, but I couldn't bear to cause him to have an accident if it could be avoided. As you say, they wouldn't normally do this and know it is 'wrong', so they get upset.
2. It can take considerable time of trial and error to get the insulin dose adjusted to suit your dog. This can be frustrating and while the dog is not stable, the accidents will continue. Also, we went through stages where both boys lost loads of weight. For me, this was the most worrying as neither was overweight in the first place. I really started to fear the worst, but thankfully this is now reversed and they look very healthy again.
3. It seems common practice for a dog the size of our minis to start on around 5 ml of insulin twice a day and adjust upwards quite gradually. For example, Alfie (our smaller lad) is now on 11 and Duke on 12. This is suiting them much better, but as Duke is still being stabilised (it has taken about 6 months), he is still having regular check-ups.
4. Treatment: apart from the twice daily injections, initially you may find your vet does regular blood and urine tests. We had several glucose curves done for each dog, especially in the early stages of trying to assess the right insulin dose. As you were probably told, by taking hourly measures of glucose levels between the injections that should be 12 hours apart, the dose can be adjusted to take into account any peaks & troughs during this time frame. Lexi will take a while to show the effects of the insulin and you could well be seeing symptoms that show her levels are fluctuating which would be expected at this early stage. Now ours are more stable, we haven't had a glucose curve recently, but are still doing regular urine samples on both dogs and about every 3 months, a fructosamine test which somehow enables the vet to monitor glucose levels going back over the preceding 3 months. This provides an assessment of how well the condition has been controlled & can be adjusted further if required. Each time the dose is changed, it can take a week to 10 days before you can work out how successful the change was and, based in urine/blood tests, whether another adjustment is advisable. This is why it can take considerable time to feel as if you are getting somewhere. It helps if you have a good relationship with your vet & they are on the ball ;)
5. I keep a few things in my Diabetic store cupboard! These include a few tins or pouches of tasty looking food - for example small cans of Goumet tuna or salmon food, some Chappie (!). This is because a diabetic dog needs to eat in order to have their injection. So if your dog is picky or goes off their food, you may need to bribe if the dog won't eat, don't give the injection and call the vet for advice.
6. I also keep some glucose syrup in the fridge (your vet or pharmacy should have this) . If your dog appears to be suffering low blood sugar , maybe panting a lot or seeming very lethargic, you can rub some of this on their gums, but it is best if your vet advises you and it may not happen in Lexi's case. Also we take treats on walks to help keep up their energy levels, but try to limit these and use natural ones.
7. The most important thing in the treatment of a diabetic dog both in getting and keeping them stable is routine. So, wherever possible, inject at the same time morning and night. Presumably you are feeding twice a day now to fit in with the injections, even if you didn't do this before. We always fed 2 meals a day, but now feed the same amounts morning & evening. We also keep amounts and types of treats largely the same. Also, exercise should be kept up at a similar level. If we're thinking of doing a Schnauzer walk (Alfie managed 3 for Schnauzerfest 2014!), we'll make sure we take lots of water, treats and keep a close eye on them.
8. Be alert in case your dog has a cut or other minor injury - as in people, a diabetic dog will take longer to heal. If they get a stomach upset, this can be more tricky than usual. Take care to give the injection after you are sure your dog is tucking into their meal. As above, bribe if necessary - a trip to the vet may be more necessary if it looks as if ingestion of food is an issue.

As I've found, if you are willing to accept the effort & disciplines imposed by this condition, it can be successfully managed & your dog can stay happy, fit & active, but don't be surprised if you & Lexi go through the mill a bit in the early days. Unfortunately, minis are one of the breeds more pre-disposed to getting it than others.

I could go on, but this is probably enough for now. Just let me know if there's anything in particular worrying or confusing you.

Alison

[Cam2]

Hi Sue, sorry to hear that Lexi has diabetes
one of my dogs suffered from this too, I wont pretend that it is easy condition to deal with, but doing the daily injections does become easier over time.
Dogs with diabetes often get water infections that cause them to wee a lot, it would be a good idea to take a pee sample from Lexi to your vet to check - and if there is an infection, a short course of antibiotics (tablets) normally clears it up.
Getting the dog stabilised onto the correct insulin dose is very important, and to do that it will mean that there will be several glucose curve tests needed.
I use to get a prescription from my vet and buy the insulin online, I don't know what your vet charges for it.....but it might be worth while looking online at someone like VioVet - I found them to be much cheaper than vet prices.
One other thing to mention is that some dogs that have diabetes then go on to develop diabetic cataracts which can cause blindness - something that happened to my dog, make sure your vet does eye checks on a regular basis. We did have surgery done to restore my dogs sight, and that is very expensive, which was fortunately covered by our pet insurance company.
It would also be a good idea to check the wording on your pet insurance to try and see what is and will be covered when the policy is renewable.
I don't want to be all doom and gloom, once stabilised your dog can have a good quality of life
If there is anything you ever want to ask, (I'm no expert) but I will be happy to try and answer where possible
Chris x

[redalert]

I thought you would be able to help Alison and its lovely of you Chris to comment, I hope this helps Sue and Lexi, as they say, a problem shared is a problem halved!