Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

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PDX_Schauzer1
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Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by PDX_Schauzer1 »

I’m going to be picking up my female Giant puppy in about a month from ********Kennel in California - she'll be about 13 weeks old at that time. I have taken 2 weeks off work to dedicate to the puppy right off the bat. This was the only time that I can take the time off work otherwise I would have gotten the pup sooner . I’ve been avidly studying and learning about raising a puppy and am currently reading ‘Before and After Getting Your Puppy’ by Dr. Ian Dunbar. This book is making me quite anxious that I have missed a number of ‘deadlines’ and also that the place I’m buying the dog from is far less than ideal. In short, he recommends getting your pup at 8 weeks from a breeder that has strongly socialized the dog and exposed to a variety of human domestic stimuli. I would greatly value hearing some opinions regarding beginning training a GS pup at 13 weeks of age and also regarding the drawbacks of getting a dog from a kennel such as ******, where the puppy has been outside with it’s litter-mates for the entirety of it’s life – making the dog ‘livestock’, according to Dr. Dunbar.

I have read extensively about Giants and am really very excited about the challenge of working with my dog. I will admit that my dog experience is limited to a little over 2 years with our 13-pound Bichon/Poodle so am a more than a little nervous about the challenges that I know a Giant will bring. I have read many threads on this forum, and others, so am very aware that a GS may not be ideal for a ‘novice’ dog owner although am certain that this is the breed I want and, as I said, am excited for the challenge.

Thank you for sharing your experience :) :)
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zeta1454
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by zeta1454 »

Welcome to the Forum :)

I have removed the kennel name as it is a Forum rule not to discuss particular breeders who may not be able to contribute to the topic themselves. I will send you a private message too re your concerns but just a few general points about getting a puppy later than 8/9 weeks and from a large scale / show kennel where dogs are not raised in a domestic setting.

As the Dr. Dunbar book states, if getting a puppy older than 8 weeks, the amount of socialisation that has been done by the breeder is more critical as the "window of opportunity " before the first fear phase sets in at around 16 weeks of age is much smaller and will often need intensive work on the part of the new owner. However, if the breeder is reputable and responsible, being aware of the fact that you are collecting your puppy at an older age should mean they will start or continue socialisation for that particular pup especially if you discuss your concerns with them.

The fact that the dogs/puppies are reared in outdoor kennels may well prove an issue if they have had no experience of life in a family house. Much will depend on whether the breeder employs staff / puppy carers and how much individual attention the pups are being given as they develop. In terms of building on their interactions with people/ other adult dogs and pups / toilet training / physical and mental challenges to develop their brains and build their muscles - all this can be done in a dedicated and caring kennel environment with sufficient experienced and responsible carers but you will need to check this out.

The worry for many people justifiably nowadays is that pups reared outside the home are being brought up deprived of human love and care, with little appropriate food and water and nothing done to enrich their environment or develop them mentally and physically. Sadly that is often the case but it is not necessarily an absolute and in the past many well known kennels were run on a large scale and did employ kennel maids and staff to attend to the hygiene, welfare and raising of puppies and these pups did just fine in their new family homes. The main concern if the kennel is run with the highest standards of care and welfare, would be the lack of experience of being in a home environment.

It could be worth checking out Puppy Culture which is first class and a wonderful support for new owners even if the breeders have not followed the protocol:

https://shoppuppyculture.com/pages/puppy-owners" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hopefully too some of those Forum members who have raised GS puppies will also be able to assist with advice from personal experience :)
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud


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Donald
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by Donald »

It's not too late. My last puppy arrived at 30 weeks.

He was until recently a real handful.

They will be more work than an earlier puppy (Swampy came to me as he'd trashed his previous house) but there's nothing insuperable.

But you will have to put in more effort and if you don't, you'll pay for it.

Swampy's a lovely lad now - this was not always the case. He was 30 weeks old when I got him, he'll be 6 in March. Now I can trust him, then, I absolutely couldn't.
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by PDX_Schauzer1 »

Sincerely appreciate the advice. I'm leaning towards picking up early (at 10 weeks of age) and dealing with the logistical difficulties. Excited and nervous!!
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by dallen »

I know the kennel you are getting the bitch from and can only suggest you watch the house training very carefully. You should only be having a few accidents if you concentrate on the house training while you are off. However if the dog leaks at night do not blame the dog, this is a known fault from this kennel and other giant breeders. The pup will not be house trained when you get it as its kept out in a ranch style pen with others. Should you have an issue, please go to the vet for further investigation and make sure you have a good contract with the breeder if you decide to return the dog.
The best bonding time for any breed is 9 - 12 weeks of age. You recognise you have past that period. I imported my giant at 15 weeks and struggled for a long time with his behaviour as he has a very high prey drive. Positive reinforcement training works best with giants as they are stubborn. You must train the dog so it wants to do what you want it to do. Find a good trainer. Do not over exercise the dog just to tire her out. Use mind games to tire her. These help the bonding with you at the same time.
Look at Susan Garretts web site (in Canada) and she has free videos of games to play with pups which teach manners.
Giants are great with small dogs, however while the pup will want to play with your other dog, always be present as just an accidental heavy paw could hurt its back.

Your life will be changed completely.
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by Riesen16 »

Do not over exercise the dog just to tire her out. Use mind games to tire her. These help the bonding with you at the same time.

My sentiments entirely.

We had all our dogs at 8 weeks bar one - the Landseer.

Enya our Giant Pepper Salt we brought home from Bavaria at 12 weeks. The "young lady" was adamant, that she was going to rule the roost. It took quite a bit of work but we managed it. We got her from a very good breeder in Bavaria and she is very well balanced. At first she threw "tantrums" when she was thwarted but they are nearly non-existent now. I go tracking with her, get her to search for aticle in house and garden, do obedience exercises with her. There is still a lot of work to be done but she is very lovable, not at all aggressive (apart from spying any other animal in the garden).

She is our first bitch and I am sure I am going to have to watch her behaviour over the years to come but I am forewarned.

Regards Gill
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by PDX_Schauzer1 »

Well, I did get my girl one week ago at 12.5 weeks. I had only 1 week off work and what a week it's been! Very steep learning curve for us both. She sure is stubborn but also really a fantastic dog. She was flown to me from California (only about a 1.5 hr flight) and hit the ground running straight out of her travel crate. Eating, drinking and having good solid poops on day one! Any concerns I had about the kennel were not founded. She has a beautiful temperament and is highly socialized to other dogs - having very healthy play habits. She is a sweetheart with people, too. I think they did a fantastic job raising a happy, healthy puppy. The breeder is super gung ho about nutrition - this pup is very healthy! (She didn't put on a pound during my first week with her - normal?)

I've been really pushing hard with positive reinforcement. Here is a quick summary of how my training has been going/not going (PLEASE weigh in and let me know what i'm doing wrong - or maybe even right):

Potty training: We live in a high-rise apartment (We'll be upgrading to a house within a few month) so has been a little difficult. She is getting used to the crate and has had only 1 accident in there. She let's us know when she needs to go and we whisk her down to the dog area. For daytime when not in the crate, we have learned her triggers (ie. drinking, napping, eating, etc) so know that she will need to go out soon after those. We really don't give her much of an opportunity to mess up but i'm far from confident that if we let her wander round for 10 minutes after waking up from a nap that she wouldn't pee on the rug. I'm hoping that we're on the right track - maybe just need more patience?? How long did it take anyone else to potty train their pup - and was there a difference between girls/boys.

Leash training: This one is important to me b/c i'm really looking forward to walking, running and hiking with my pup. Watched a bunch of youtube videos, etc on this one. I started with just getting her comfortable with the harness, then attaching the leash and letting her just drag it around. Then, I try to bribe her with treats to get her to follow me while i'm walking backwards and praising her in an embarrassingly high voice. Then, try to pick up the leash and lead her a little - never pulling/tugging, of course. Again, I might need more patience here but i'm getting frustrated b/c when she sees a leaf, mud, bushes, etc that she wants to investigate or eat, then there seems like nothing I can do to win her attention back, let alone, get her to follow me!! Ideas? How long did it take folks to get there pup to the point that they actually take them for a walk?

Getting her to focus on me: Struggling with this one. Have been showing her a treat which I then bring up to my the bridge of nose (hopefully with her attention still attached to it) while saying "watch me" then CLICK + Reward if her focus does come up to my eyes. Can't seem to progress too far past this. She is so distracted by everything (she's a puppy - have patience, I know haha).

In positive news: we have mastered 'sit' and are well on the way to 'down'. Sit and stay is a work on progress but I think we've seen some improvements.

How much time did your Giant pups spend sleeping per day when they were 13-14 weeks old? This little girl seems to sleep a lot. Maybe 4-6 hours of terrorizing our apartment and the other 18-20 comatose with her belly upwards and disproportionately long legs all over the place.

Thank you!!!
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by Dawnspell »

To get her attention you need to become more exciting than the leaf, bushes etc. They like high pitched squeaky voices. call her name say "Whats this" have a favourite toy or treat and take a few quick steps away from her as though you're going to run away. When she follows or at least makes eye contact, praise and treat.

When you're doing the focus training do it in the same quiet room all the time with as few distractions as possible. Keep the sessions short but frequent. When shes mastered it there move to another quiet room and start again. Once you've got solid focus in quiet areas then you can add distractions. I don't have a food orientated dog to watch the treat, so I made a kissing noise that he liked. When he looked at me I clicked and treated ( although he was generally happy with good boy rather than food).
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by Dawnspell »

Forgot to add 20 hrs of sleep for a puppy is quite normal.
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by zeta1454 »

"Leash training: This one is important to me b/c i'm really looking forward to walking, running and hiking with my pup. Watched a bunch of youtube videos, etc on this one. I started with just getting her comfortable with the harness, then attaching the leash and letting her just drag it around. Then, I try to bribe her with treats to get her to follow me while i'm walking backwards and praising her in an embarrassingly high voice. Then, try to pick up the leash and lead her a little - never pulling/tugging, of course. Again, I might need more patience here but i'm getting frustrated b/c when she sees a leaf, mud, bushes, etc that she wants to investigate or eat, then there seems like nothing I can do to win her attention back, let alone, get her to follow me!! Ideas? How long did it take folks to get there pup to the point that they actually take them for a walk?"

Just a couple of points to mention re this:
You will need to wait for your puppy to mature before you consider running and hiking or there is a very real risk of injury to her. Do have a look at these links for a guide to the kind of exercise regime you would expect to do with a puppy up to 18 months or older:

https://www.puppyculture.com/new-approp ... rcise.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.puppyculture.com/new-exercise-chart.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also do remember that these early weeks are a chance for your puppy to learn about her world and the smells, sights and sounds around her. She does need time to enjoy following her nose, tasting things and just enjoying herself too. Training sessions at this age should be very short - repetition is more important than length of time of the session. As you say, patience is key and taking each step slowly and reinforcing it before moving on to the next stage.

Good luck - I am sure you will get there but it will take time.
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud


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PDX_Schauzer1
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by PDX_Schauzer1 »

Thank you both! Very Helpful!!

I think being a guy may be a disadvantage at this point in training. At least, that's my excuse for not being able to convince my pup that I'm more interesting that a leaf :)) :))
PDX_Schauzer1
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by PDX_Schauzer1 »

Also, here are a couple pics of my puppy, Sophie. These are about the only ones we have where she doesn't look like a shadow ... Black dog problems [emoji23]ImageImageImage



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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by Phyllis2 »

PDX_Schauzer1 wrote:I’m going to be picking up my female Giant puppy in about a month from ********Kennel in California - she'll be about 13 weeks old at that time. I have taken 2 weeks off work to dedicate to the puppy right off the bat. This was the only time that I can take the time off work otherwise I would have gotten the pup sooner . I’ve been avidly studying and learning about raising a puppy and am currently reading ‘Before and After Getting Your Puppy’ by Dr. Ian Dunbar. This book is making me quite anxious that I have missed a number of ‘deadlines’ and also that the place I’m buying the dog from is far less than ideal. In short, he recommends getting your pup at 8 weeks from a breeder that has strongly socialized the dog and exposed to a variety of human domestic stimuli. I would greatly value hearing some opinions regarding beginning training a GS pup at 13 weeks of age and also regarding the drawbacks of getting a dog from a kennel such as ******, where the puppy has been outside with it’s litter-mates for the entirety of it’s life – making the dog ‘livestock’, according to Dr. Dunbar.

I have read extensively about Giants and am really very excited about the challenge of working with my dog. I will admit that my dog experience is limited to a little over 2 years with our 13-pound Bichon/Poodle so am a more than a little nervous about the challenges that I know a Giant will bring. I have read many threads on this forum, and others, so am very aware that a GS may not be ideal for a ‘novice’ dog owner although am certain that this is the breed I want and, as I said, am excited for the challenge.

Thank you for sharing your experience :) :)
IMHO as a first time Giant owner, Molly is now nearly 4, I wish to heavens I'd have waited to get her at that age rather than at 8 weeks. She would have learned her bite inhibition at least :). If the breeder is reputable I see no problem getting a 13 w o Giant. On another note, even though I got my Molly Mopster at 8 weeks she was fully potty trained.

Good luck and enjoy the ride of a lifetime :)

Wendy

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Phyllis2
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by Phyllis2 »

PDX_Schauzer1 wrote:I’m going to be picking up my female Giant puppy in about a month from ********Kennel in California - she'll be about 13 weeks old at that time. I have taken 2 weeks off work to dedicate to the puppy right off the bat. This was the only time that I can take the time off work otherwise I would have gotten the pup sooner . I’ve been avidly studying and learning about raising a puppy and am currently reading ‘Before and After Getting Your Puppy’ by Dr. Ian Dunbar. This book is making me quite anxious that I have missed a number of ‘deadlines’ and also that the place I’m buying the dog from is far less than ideal. In short, he recommends getting your pup at 8 weeks from a breeder that has strongly socialized the dog and exposed to a variety of human domestic stimuli. I would greatly value hearing some opinions regarding beginning training a GS pup at 13 weeks of age and also regarding the drawbacks of getting a dog from a kennel such as ******, where the puppy has been outside with it’s litter-mates for the entirety of it’s life – making the dog ‘livestock’, according to Dr. Dunbar.

I have read extensively about Giants and am really very excited about the challenge of working with my dog. I will admit that my dog experience is limited to a little over 2 years with our 13-pound Bichon/Poodle so am a more than a little nervous about the challenges that I know a Giant will bring. I have read many threads on this forum, and others, so am very aware that a GS may not be ideal for a ‘novice’ dog owner although am certain that this is the breed I want and, as I said, am excited for the challenge.

Thank you for sharing your experience :) :)
Another thing is that a GS needs a job. I'm with our local Neighbourhood Watch and have trained her to track baddies. She's brilliant and absolutely loves it. We practice twice a week with an ex Police Dog trainer and his team. It's a fabulous bonding time for us too. I've read about a few peeps who have trained their GS as therapy dogs. This would never have worked with Molly as she's clumsy and doesn't quite realise how heavy she is[emoji3]. They are very smart dogs and will test you at every turn. As I said, enjoy the ride of a lifetime. Wendy

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PDX_Schauzer1
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Re: Is 13 weeks too old to get a Giant puppy?

Post by PDX_Schauzer1 »

Riesen16 wrote:Do not over exercise the dog just to tire her out. Use mind games to tire her. These help the bonding with you at the same time.

My sentiments entirely.

We had all our dogs at 8 weeks bar one - the Landseer.

Enya our Giant Pepper Salt we brought home from Bavaria at 12 weeks. The "young lady" was adamant, that she was going to rule the roost. It took quite a bit of work but we managed it. We got her from a very good breeder in Bavaria and she is very well balanced. At first she threw "tantrums" when she was thwarted but they are nearly non-existent now. I go tracking with her, get her to search for aticle in house and garden, do obedience exercises with her. There is still a lot of work to be done but she is very lovable, not at all aggressive (apart from spying any other animal in the garden).

She is our first bitch and I am sure I am going to have to watch her behaviour over the years to come but I am forewarned.

Regards Gill
Having got my pup 2 weeks ago yesterday we've had a good chance to evaluate each other. As I've been watching her and learning her behavior I keep thinking back to your comment about "ruling the roost" - too funny and ABSOLUTELY what she is trying to do!! I am astonished by the stubbornness, intelligence and mischievousness of this puppy. When she had figured out something that she wants she just keeps after it - often blatantly ignoring us :)) :))

Any advice with regards to keeping these pups inline? I think we're making progress but I would certainly like her to listen to us a little more. Do Giants typically respond to firm "No!"? How best to mold their behavior when being mischievous, misbehaving, etc?

Also, my pup doesn't seem to be very motivated by treats. We have a huge range of high quality treats and none of them seem to pique her interest. Ideas?
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