Is there a role for punishment in toilet training

[PDX_Schauzer1]

This sounds controversial, sure - I'm one week in to toilet training my 13 week old Giant puppy. I'm doing everything as suggested, ie. controlling the environment - meaning, keeping her in a crate at night and keeping her close to me when awake and in the apartment. If I'm completely on my game, there are no accidents however, if I let her wander around for a few minutes after a nap she will pop a squat and empty her bladder on the rug (this happened about 5 minutes ago). Now i'm sure she's learning that the dog area outside at our apartment building is a good place for her to pee (i've positively reinforced this) but how can she know that my rug is not good? Everyone says that punishment has no role in toilet training so I haven't even so much as uttered a firm 'No!' when she pees inside. What are your thoughts? Can I let her know that this behavior is no bueno or will she be scarred for life??

[mikegoodson1]

I don't have a Giant puppy but I have a mini puppy (well she is now around 20 weeks old) and I found toilet training her a bit more challenging than when our 2 year old mini boy was a puppy. Saying that we got there in the end with Sasha, I know it can be infuriating etc but they are only babies, they do learn. Sasha used to be taken out to the garden to do her business (which she did) and then 10 minutes after coming back in, she would pee on the carpet.

I did eventually chastise Sasha a little with a firm 'No' if she pee'd etc on the carpet but you need to be careful not to scare them in to not doing anything and holding on, which isn't good for them. I certainly don't advocate the old school of rubbing their noses in it, I know you were not suggesting that (just to be clear) but I was advised by others (not on this forum) to do that - I would NEVER do that.

As they get older they are able to hold on a little longer and so this does ease the issues.

I really don't think when she was peeing in the house, she was doing it to annoy us, more she just could not hold onto it and I suspect that is the same for your situation.

Even now, we still have to ensure Sasha goes out every few hours and especially after eating, it's like it just goes straight through her

Please be patient, it will come good.

Good luck!

[Dawnspell]

In a word NO. If she needs to go she needs to go. If she associates going to the toilet with punishment then she is likely to go hide somewhere in the house and do it leaving a "surprise" for you to find later.

You've already isolated the fact it happens after a nap therefore you should be taking her straight out when she wakes.

If you see her about to squat or is squatting in the house then a quick distraction of "Ah Ah" or "Oi" in a firm voice not shouting to break her concentration and take her straight out. Its not punishment but a verbal command that she will begin to understand means I don't want you to do that.

Barney being intact wants to mark everything when out on a walk but there are things I wont let him pee up against eg dustbins, gate posts, car wheels. So if I see him about to cock his leg I say "Ah Ah not there" and he doesn't.

[Robin black mini]

I want to re title your post.." The morning after"... In that ,a few hours ago,you posted..


quote "Potty training: We live in a high-rise apartment (We'll be upgrading to a house within a few month) so has been a little difficult. She is getting used to the crate and has had only 1 accident in there. She let's us know when she needs to go and we whisk her down to the dog area. For daytime when not in the crate, we have learned her triggers (ie. drinking, napping, eating, etc) so know that she will need to go out soon after those. We really don't give her much of an opportunity to mess up but i'm far from confident that if we let her wander round for 10 minutes after waking up from a nap that she wouldn't pee on the rug. I'm hoping that we're on the right track - maybe just need more patience?" "
All that sounded fantastic..you were on the right track....
But then you reposted,the morning after....

Sorry to say it ,but you brought in a large breed pup into a high rise...you will have to work much harder than if you'd waited to move into the house you have planned...your choice,not hers.(..so get the mop out and smile...)

Remember,You've had this baby one week....full house training may take two or three months...

....So,this morning she's peed on your rug. It brings life to the familiar phrase" sh..t happens"..not her fault,she's so very young...and isn't being given the option for a fast relief outside...so smile and carry on...this is temporary and will improve,given you plan to move into a house/ garden.

Recap..
Large breed pup,just been with you a week, and pees are going to be huge compared to your previous bichon mix ...plus you are in a high rise....things will get much better when you move to the house / garden that you said you will be doing soon..
In your previous post you had me nodding..youd learned her triggers,you said, and got her out...so carry on this routine..after feeding ,after play ,and she will learn that when she performs outdoors she gets huge praise.
In the meantime,it's not her fault she's in an inappropriate place for a large breed pup...
In the meantime,you need to adapt to the immediate situation and remove all extra floor rugs..Eg for now,keep her in a room like the kitchen when unsupervised,un carpeted with a safety gate...so easy to clean if she makes a mistake..keep getting her outdoors after the key trigger times..don't create a fuss if she makes a mistake,remember you've brought her into a high rise flat,but it won't be forever and things will definitely get better once you move.
No negatives..but lots of positive direction outdoors.ie ." wee wee " song from you and praise when she performs..works a treat and I still sing it when I come down in the early hours with a 3 and 5 yr old..lol,far better than a wet floor cleanup...

[PDX_Schauzer1]

Fantastic responses - thank you!! The title of the thread was more to get attention than anything else... Def not about to actually stress my pup out by yelling, etc when she pees in the house. I wish she would give us a little more notice likes a cocked leg when she's about to pee so I could jump in and break her thought process before it happens. Our other little guy is more thoughtful like that[emoji6]. All little Sophie gives us is about a 4 inch squat immediately followed by a torrent... Yes, you just have to grin and bear it[emoji3]. Completely on board with making this 100% my responsibility... Don't worry, not blaming her for any of this! As much work as this week has been it's been extraordinary fun! Thanks again[emoji3][emoji3]


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[Cosmo]

When little Sprocket was a puppy, we discussed toilet training with the vet, and I shall never forget her advice: "Don't worry about toilet training. They'll just 'get it'."

She was right too. Sprocket just got the hang of it, and stopped weeing on the kitchen floor and pooing behind the sofa! A bit of patience and they'll soon know where to go. Dogs tend not to like spoiling their environment and living space. They soon learn. We were anxious about the subject, but we didn't need to be.

[schnauzer]

I guess I've been so lucky with Gino who is now 9 months but this wee boy came home to us at 8 weeks & he has been dry overnight from day one !! Yes we did have a few accidents during the day 6 to be exact our fault & have to admit 2 were mine & 4 due to my hubby.

Take them out to the garden as soon as they wake up, also after every meal & play time. Also made sure he had done the the toilet before we went visiting with him at 12 weeks

This wee boy was so easy trained unlike my previous one but then we were working then

[Fergus]

I guess I've been so lucky with Gino who is now 9 months but this wee boy came home to us at 8 weeks & he has been dry overnight from day one !! Yes we did have a few accidents during the day 6 to be exact our fault & have to admit 2 were mine & 4 due to my hubby.

Take them out to the garden as soon as they wake up, also after every meal & play time. Also made sure he had done the the toilet before we went visiting with him at 12 weeks

This wee boy was so easy trained unlike my previous one but then we were working then

Fergus has been the same. He did a pee in the house once a couple of weeks ago when he was not well.

he stopped doing it in the house at 11 weeks.
We just made sure he got out all the time.
We still feel he trained us, but it worked.

[schnauzer]

I guess I've been so lucky with Gino who is now 9 months but this wee boy came home to us at 8 weeks & he has been dry overnight from day one !! Yes we did have a few accidents during the day 6 to be exact our fault & have to admit 2 were mine & 4 due to my hubby.

Take them out to the garden as soon as they wake up, also after every meal & play time. Also made sure he had done the the toilet before we went visiting with him at 12 weeks

This wee boy was so easy trained unlike my previous one but then we were working then

Fergus has been the same. He did a pee in the house once a couple of weeks ago when he was not well.


he stopped doing it in the house at 11 weeks.
We just made sure he got out all the time.
We still feel he trained us, but it worked.

Colin

Gino the same as Fergus well seen they are brothers & also thanks to our excellent Breeder x