Training and rewards

Want to know something about training your Schnauzer. Feel free to browse through this section. You will find everything from toilet training, recall and other training issues covered here. Feel free to ask your own questions too. You will have a perfectly behaved Schnauzer in no time.
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Lottie
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Training and rewards

Post by Lottie »

We have had Lottie, a standard, for nearly a year and attend weekly training classes. She also has occasional day care for socialisation. She seems to be middle of the road for behavior and obedience judging from the posts on the forum.
For training we use treats , mainly homemade liver cake, she is food obsessed with no interest in toys. Does anyone have a standard that is toy (ball) obsessed like Labradors?
Unfortunately we have had to visit the vet on a few occasions , retrieving socks, wet wipes from her stomach and red eye. She was very good but recently she has got snappy, no contact or blood drawn, but needs a muzzle. We, our groomer and family can touch her all over and practiced this from early on. The vet said we should train her so she would allow examinations, any suggestions on how to do this? The vet did comment that her heart rate was low so her reaction was unlikely to be from fear.
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zeta1454
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Re: Training and rewards

Post by zeta1454 »

No experience with standard schnauzers so hopefully someone on the Forum with the breed may be able to offer advice from that perspective. However, our mini schnauzers are most certainly food obsessed much more than toys :D

If Lottie is under a year old, she will be going through adolescence which is almost always a challenging time for dog families as their previously well trained sociable dog can appear to develop fears, spooking at things they were fine with and generally play up in a variety of ways. The reluctance to let the vet examine her may be partly due to this and possibly aggravated by the fact that Lottie has had previous experiences at the vet surgery which may have been unpleasant / uncomfortable for her (even if she is not acting out of fear).

You do want to get Lottie more relaxed at being examined though without being muzzled which may also be stressful for her. As you say that Lottie is fine with your family and the groomer, you need to get someone Lottie does not know to do an examination - could this be incorporated into her training class?
If, however, it turns out that this really is only happening at the vet surgery i.e. Lottie is unwilling to let a vet examine her because of previous experiences, you might need to see if a vet nurse or other person at the surgery would be willing to help you accustom Lottie to examination with positive associations such as feeding her high value treats in exchange for allowing the vet professional to handle her. It may need several very limited touching sessions initially and build up to more detailed examination but, as Lottie is food motivated, it may progress quickly if she thinks she will get quality rewards for allowing the examination.
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Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
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Bodee
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Re: Training and rewards

Post by Bodee »

The only time my Max got nippy was when I took him to the vets. He had to be muzzled AND it took 3 of us to hold him still. He would have laid waste to the whole place if he could have got the muzzle off. I could never understand it (as anyone reading my posts about Max would know he was always as good as gold - his behaviour made me proud of him - this was after his puppy stage though :)
Anyway after years of this the vet one day suggested I go outside the room and leave him with them. That was all it took, the vet said he thought Max was reacting to being unable to defend me - so with me not in the room he relaxed and allowed the vet to do anything they wanted.
I should have realised this earlier as he was no trouble in the groomers (because I wasn't there) which is a similar situation.

Max loved to play with the ball - in fact he didn't bother about most other toys other than the occasional "animal looking toy" which he would get at Christmas or his Birthday and a huge Bear a friend brought him back from her holiday for him. For all these toys I had a time limit i.e. when it went from playing to trying to take bits off it, I took them off him and binned them.
At present I am doing the same with Milla - any sign of actually removing bits off a sock or a toy and hey presto it disappears for good.

I can't offer much advice on nipping but I hate the idea of a muzzle. I am assuming the problem is not just at the vet, if it is only at the vet try the above.

Standards are immature for well over a year (Max was 2 before he was totally in tune with me regarding behaviour - some of that time I think was due to working part time) so my advice would be to continue to verbally chastise and reward i.e. make it crystal clear there is to be no biting/nipping, doing it firmly and reward good behaviour -maybe some small bits of carrot.
Step up thee socialising, maybe starting off with friends who are used to dogs and understand the problem you are trying to correct.

It may be that he has just got too "mouth obsessed" i.e. it's becoming his "go to" method of communicating especially with people outside the family.
I'm sorry I can't be more helpful but as I have said before if a dog/pup has a problem then 99 times out of 100 it will be down to something we have caused or something they have not understood properly - they live to please us so it is just a matter of adjusting any of "your/the family"s" habits that may have led to the situation (trial and error - i.e. maybe less liver and more praise and more exercise :)

Anyway all the best - I'm sure you'll get there.
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mikegoodson1
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Re: Training and rewards

Post by mikegoodson1 »

Your story about Max in the vets made me smile. When I was in my teens and still living at home we had a 'Heinz 57' variety dog (nowadays I think the buzzword is cross-breed) that my Dad had rescued from Wimbledon common (he was a Policeman) - she had been abandoned there. We called her Kally, she was a dear thing but had issues.

Anyway, she used to stick by my side like glue, sleep on my bed etc and one day I had to take her to the PDSA to be spayed. I took her into the room to see the vet and she went absolutely crazy, teeth bared, lips all snarled back, I struggled to keep hold of her, the vet couldn't get near her and he said the same thing to me as in your story. Drop the lead and walk quietly out of the room. I said to him "are you crazy" but he said that he would be fine.

I stood outside in the waiting room fearing the worst, after about 5 minutes an assistant called me in. There was Kally, lying on the table (post-examination) and he said that she was perfectly fine with him and that she was just protecting me, with me not being there, she was as good as gold.

Your story just brought that memory back - bless her.
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73chippy943
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Re: Training and rewards

Post by 73chippy943 »

I think anybody who has a dog which is food motivated is
very lucky.Because our Chip is not at all bothered about food,
we find him harder to train.Not to say he is that bad,but he
will just lately bark at passing dogs,apart from the ones he
gets on with (female). And some people,he feels ought to come
over and say hello.He can also be independant sometimes and
decide he will do things his way.
It might be because the wife walks him,and he goes where
he wants when he wants.She really is to soft with him,so he
treats everything like a game.No complaints as l cannot walk him
because of C.O.P.D ,Asthma & Osteoporosis.Think l will get an
electric shopper and walk him beside me.
He very rarely gets shouted at and NEVER gets hit.

:o3 :o3 B-)
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Lottie
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Re: Training and rewards

Post by Lottie »

So another visit to the vets, this time for vaccination booster with a different vet. Offered to put the muzzle on but wanted to try without, vet was willing. Put her up on the table, I held her, other half fed treats. Examination, needle, spray up nose, long discussion on spaying, no issues good as gold. She must have been having a bad day last time.
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Robin black mini
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Re: Training and rewards

Post by Robin black mini »

Lottie wrote:So another visit to the vets, this time for vaccination booster with a different vet. Offered to put the muzzle on but wanted to try without, vet was willing. Put her up on the table, I held her, other half fed treats. Examination, needle, spray up nose, long discussion on spaying, no issues good as gold. She must have been having a bad day last time.
Hi,,couple of quick points..
Re the vaccs..you don't need to do annual vaccinations..the new protocols say even every three years is being cautious..look at the health board for the updates on vaccine protocol.

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=15355" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re the nasal drops..I assume that's the bordatella ,kennel cough...not on the list as a necessary base core vaccine...we'd only have this one if the dog had to be kennelled,etc..
Overkill on the vets part IMO..

Re the spay?.with a medium sized dog I'd advise waiting for at least two seasons before considering spaying...two years is a good age if you want to spay her.At a year old your girls growth plates are still open,she isn't mature yet and would really benefit with a few more months growing time before she is spayed..

Re the red eye..I use eye drops every so often,if we've had a period of strong winds or especial cold..the inner eye lids can look a bit reddened ,so I use either camomile drops or epiotic eye drops..it seems to sooth the eye and the redness goes overnight.
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Lottie
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Born: 12 Feb 2017

Re: Training and rewards

Post by Lottie »

Hi Robin, thanks for your comments. The vaccination was the 12 month booster and we do intend moving to the 3 year interval, or longer, and will discuss it with our vets. Any idea what a titre test costs as I have read that some people have this done instead of automatically vaccinating? The KC is needed as she will be staying at a kennels for odd days this year and it's a requirement. We are very interested in which drops you use to prevent or treat red eye as Lottie has had two bouts of this.
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Robin black mini
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Re: Training and rewards

Post by Robin black mini »

Hi again..I'm in Italy so can't tell you the price for titers in uk,sorry...can someone aboard help with this ?

Re eye drops..if you think the eye is infected ( yellow matter) then the drops will have to be vet prescribed as she may need an antibiotic.
.....if there is no infection then can you look at her eyes and see if her hair is not irritating them..keep her eyebrows trimmed clear of the eye surfaces.
....check she has no debris /dirt in the corners of her eyes...if so ,get some boric acid opthalmic solution from your chemist and gently swab her eyes each morning.


I've often used epiotic or chamomile drops ,in winter when winds here can make the eyes red...we are in the freezing alps...but these are to refresh/ hydrate the eyes,nothing medicinal..also in our hot summers these drops help hydrate the eyes.

Does she have staining under her eyes...her diet could also be checked to see if she has intolerance to any of the most probable triggers. Eg grains etc. which can cause tearing in some dogs.
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zeta1454
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Re: Training and rewards

Post by zeta1454 »

Lottie wrote:Hi Robin, thanks for your comments. The vaccination was the 12 month booster and we do intend moving to the 3 year interval, or longer, and will discuss it with our vets. Any idea what a titre test costs as I have read that some people have this done instead of automatically vaccinating? The KC is needed as she will be staying at a kennels for odd days this year and it's a requirement. We are very interested in which drops you use to prevent or treat red eye as Lottie has had two bouts of this.

Re the cost of a titre test, this will depend if your vet offers an in-house serological testing via Vaccicheck or similar or if they send the blood sample to a pathology lab for testing. The latter could be from £75 upwards and I have heard of some vets quoting ridiculous prices around £250 or more. We had one done at the vet surgery we use and it was about £120 I think.

Nowadays more and more vets are offering the Vaccicheck in-house test which is usually around £35-£40. If your own vets do not offer this and you do not want to pay out for a pathology lab test, you can either find a practice that does offer the Vaccicheck test and just register your dog there for titre testing only or you can ask your vet to take the sample and forward it to Vaccicheck who will carry out the test.

If you can find a practice that does offer Vaccicheck, you should get the results on the day and the procedure is quite quick and painless. The pathology lab test will take up to 2 weeks for the results to come back. The "scoring" system is different too as regards levels of antibodies.

Do be aware too that some vets maintain the titre has to be at a certain level to be protective but this is not the case according to the professional veterinary experts at the WSAVA who state that any positive titre in an adult dog indicates protection.

Have a look at the Vaccicheck webpage:
http://vaccicheck.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And their Facebook page Vacci-check UK has lots of information as well as a map showing places offering the service so is well worth a look.
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud


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