Training Advice / Recommendations please.

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Stedders
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Joined: 19 Oct 2020, 15:45
First Name: Paul
Dog #1: Ziggy
is a: P/S Mini Dog
Born: 04 Aug 2020
Location: Twickenham, Greater London

Training Advice / Recommendations please.

Post by Stedders »

Apologies for the lengthy pre-amble, I have some specific questions at the end.
Our family have recently welcomed Ziggy into our house, he is an eleven week-old Mini Schnauzer.
Ziggy is not our first family dog, but he is the first for more than ten years, so best to consider us novices in the world of dog training. He is, on the whole, very well behaved. Oh, and he is adorable.
Ziggy has not yet had his full set of vaccinations – our vet recommends that he be kept (relatively) housebound until he has his second injection, due next week and then we leave it for another couple of weeks before taking him out for walks etc.
However, my son and I have signed him up for local dog training classes, our second session was yesterday. So far, it has been pretty disastrous. Because there are other dogs on the course he has been too easily distracted and I am thinking that the course sessions (one hour each) are just too long for his limited attention span. In short I come away from the sessions pretty dispirited as he just hasn’t learnt anything and more concerned that we won’t be able to train him the basics.

So, I am wondering the following:
one hour training sessions just seem too long for him? He just doesn’t have the attention span
Maybe best if I were to concentrate on a series of a 5-minute sessions throughout the day. (I am with him throughout the day due to the current WFH policy).

Questions:
There are no shortage of dog-training videos and courses online – in a way just too many; are there any that people that would specifically recommend? I am thinking of comprehensive training schedules that could be broken down into bite size chunks.
Likewise any books you would recommend?
Is Ziggy too young for such training? (I am guessing the answer is he can never be too young)
Many thanks for reading this, I would appreciate any advice or constructive comments
Oscar 12345
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Dog #1: Oscar RIP Sweety
is a: P/S Mini Dog
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Born: 04 Jul 2017

Re: Training Advice / Recommendations please.

Post by Oscar 12345 »

Paul, this is a very interesting post. Actually for some schnauzers I believe that enclosed training class, lots of dogs, for schnauzers at such a young age is too much. I think it is over stimulating. I tried a number with Otto, the one that worked the best was the Dog's Trust and they sectioned off every puppy so they couldn't see the other dogs but they could smell them. Only 6 dogs in a class. Looking back I can see why that works, my only criticism was there was a lot of talking and presentations. But tried a number of training classes with Otto where he could see all the dogs and it was a disaster for us and very disheartening, he turned into a Tasmanian Devil. I took him when he was very young because I thought it was the right thing to do. My first schnauzer at an older age I think nearer 6 months, sailed through his training class. What would have been better for Otto was play dates with siblings to learn social skills, big mistake I made was not getting their details. He needed that sort of play socialisation. Then as I did with Otto, lots of individual training outside and in, getting him used to the amount of outside stimulation that he can manage, a little at a time, mixing it up slightly and taking the opportunity for appropriate doggy socialisation whenever you can. When he has matured a little, hopefully a little calmer, you might find a class more productive but if you can't get him calm outside then getting him calm inside a class, next to other dogs etc. will be impossible. Otto would never have done well in a class environment. So, it's not you, it's the environment. I like to recommend a book called The Other End of the Lead which I wish I would have read at the puppy stage.
Man cannot survive with wine alone...
we also need a schnauzer.
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zeta1454
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Dog #1: Magic
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Re: Training Advice / Recommendations please.

Post by zeta1454 »

Hi Paul, as Julie says many formal training classes are too long and not managed well for very young puppies. Puppy classes for youngsters of Ziggy’s age should have at least 1 trainer to 2 pups, there should be plenty of space between pups with different sections for each where they can learn simple skills and can be introduced to other pups individually in a safe and controlled way. They should have plenty of rest / play time and not too much ‘training’ in one go. If you cannot find a good training class it is absolutely the best idea to carry out training at home instead as negative experiences at this young age can have a deep and lasting effect on a puppy.

Priorities at this stage are to ‘socialise’ Ziggy with as many different environments and people as possible ( within the limits of what you can do in the current national restrictions!). It is a good idea if he can meet other dogs in a safe environment- other puppies for play as well as trustworthy relaxed adult dogs too. Although puppy play is good, puppies cannot teach each other how to behave towards other older dogs and this is something they learn from interactions with mature dogs. If you have any family or friends with a good natured adult dog, try to arrange for them to meet Ziggy too.

The Other End of the Lead is a great book as Julie says and well worth a read. If you are looking at online courses there are many good positive reward based training schemes available. I would also recommend clicker training as this can really help with puppies through to adult dogs:

https://www.clickertraining.com/puppy-training

Short training sessions throughout the day are ideal so your plan on 5 minute sessions is good. Do remember to find time to train Ziggy to cope with being alone too if you haven’t started this already as it is vital that he does not come to expect there will always be someone home with him 24/7. Even if you continue to work from home in the future, there will always be the possibility that Ziggy will have to be left for short periods at some time and, if he has never been left, this can lead to severe anxiety and destructive or noisy behaviour.
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud


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Stedders
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Joined: 19 Oct 2020, 15:45
First Name: Paul
Dog #1: Ziggy
is a: P/S Mini Dog
Born: 04 Aug 2020
Location: Twickenham, Greater London

Re: Training Advice / Recommendations please.

Post by Stedders »

Many, many thanks for the replies it gives me reassurance that it's not merely down to my own shortcomings (I know all about them!)
The book "The Other End of the Lead" – is this by Patricia McConnell?
Her name has cropped up in a separate conversation I was having with another dog owner.
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zeta1454
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Posts: 5136
Joined: 19 May 2011, 16:58
First Name: Leigh
Dog #1: Magic
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Born: 20 Apr 2010
Dog #2: Trilby
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Born: 15 Mar 2012
Dog #3: Pip
Born: 21 Feb 2014
is a: P/S Mini Bitch
Location: North Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Training Advice / Recommendations please.

Post by zeta1454 »

Stedders wrote: 25 Oct 2020, 21:42 Many, many thanks for the replies it gives me reassurance that it's not merely down to my own shortcomings (I know all about them!)
The book "The Other End of the Lead" – is this by Patricia McConnell?
Her name has cropped up in a separate conversation I was having with another dog owner.
Yes - Patricia McConnell has written many excellent books. Other recommended authors are Janet Finlay (“Your End of the Lead”) and Jane Killion ( When Pigs Fly). Although these books are primarily looking to support and guide people with hard to train or reactive dogs, the methods and information given are really useful to anyone with a lively intelligent puppy or dog :)

https://www.yourendofthelead.com/

https://www.whenpigsflydogtraining.com/ ... The-Book/1
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud


https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/C ... 916994967/
Oscar 12345
Member
Posts: 1592
Joined: 02 May 2017, 11:28
First Name: Julie
Dog #1: Oscar RIP Sweety
is a: P/S Mini Dog
Born: 21 Dec 2002
Dog #2: Otto
is a: B/S Mini Dog
Born: 04 Jul 2017

Re: Training Advice / Recommendations please.

Post by Oscar 12345 »

Sorry my fault, I keep getting the books confused and I did mean The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell.
Man cannot survive with wine alone...
we also need a schnauzer.
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Dawnspell
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Re: Training Advice / Recommendations please.

Post by Dawnspell »

I've also got The Other End of the Lead, it is quite a long read. One that I would recommend for a puppy which is easy reading and you can dip in and out of is Easy Peasy Puppy Squeezy by Steve Mann.

Training classes can be daunting for puppies and owners. Jasper started at 16 weeks for hour long lessons after 45 mins he just became too overwhelmed and would just lose it for the last 15 mins.

As for video training I've been watching a series on Youtube / Instagram by Zak George. It follows the training of his border collie puppy Inertia from when he got her at 8 weeks. All the training sessions are filmed in real time so you get to see things as they happen, unlike a lot of other training videos where you can tell the dog already has an idea of the behavior required. Whats good is seeing that a dog trainer doesnt have a perfect dog either :)) You do have to skip through the first minute or so on each video as its promotion for his sponsor.

Kikopup is also another trainer I would recommend on youtube.
Our first family dog
Barney - Pocketpark Biali Eyebright 6/2/13 - 8/3/19 Gone too soon
Motto for owners who groom their own Schnauzers -"Never mind it'll soon grow back"
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Schnauzerluv
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Re: Training Advice / Recommendations please.

Post by Schnauzerluv »

This is interesting thanks for posting it, i'm starting puppy classes with Ozzy next week! I'm feeling the same anxiety about bringing Ozzy about and socialization in particular. He's a week ahead of Ziggy, so he had his shots last week and we have only just begun to socialize in any way. If you're in a similar situation as me, it's been almost impossible to socialize with Covid restrictions and not fully vaccinated. It's been a real challenge for A LOT of "Covid puppies" and I can sympathize.

Without hijacking your thread (keeping it short) Ozzy was terrified of ppl and other dogs.

We've made some progress but it's been challenging!
I got a AKC letter from the breeder how to socialize puppies during the pandemic. I thought it was helpful and thought i'd share it

Image

Anyway, since Ozzy got his shots, we've been bringing Ozzy in the front yard and up the street a few houses. I had already gotten him familiar with the leash and walking in an area in the back he does not have free access to, so it made it a lot easier to start in the front on lead. He's 'met' a few neighbors, watched ppl and dogs walk by, walked by a neighbour raking, seen neighbour's dogs but not up close, ect. I've been trying to show him it's nothing to be afraid of or bark at.

We've also been bringing him for rides in the car, parking in areas to watch, bringing him to drive thru's ect. This week I will bring him to the LPS for a short visit.

Yesterday he made a visit to my inlaws 5 mins away because my mother-in-law fractured her ankle (a way to be aloud to visit during lockdown). She said to bring Ozzy. We just gotta find ways to socialize him.

About the puppy classes, I also feel one hour is a long time for a little puppy as well and feeling apprehensive. Although I don't want to miss out on instruction, if at any time I feel Ozzy is overwhelmed (or preferably BEFORE he is overwhelmed), I know I can take Ozzy away from the stressful situation at any time. Maybe a break back to car or outside would be enough. I can also utilize the in-class training sessions to take a break in the beginning instead of expecting him to be patient for that long. It's important for him to learn how to focus amongst distractions and to meet other dogs (if you want him to be dog social), but i'll leave that level for when he is older and more exposed to the world. As far as Ziggy learning anything, he will most likely do most of his learning at home with you. Yes! 5 min training sessions are great! Do 5-10 of them per day 😊.

Hope that helps and i'm following
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