The Schnauzer Forum

Otto is getting on a bit now 21 months and I love the bones of him. . I have held off from castration for a number of reasons but have come to the conclusion that I should try him with the Suprelorin chemical castration implant. I am going to chart our experience over the next few weeks for anyone else that may be interested now or in the future. Our appointment for the implant is Friday and we are going for the 6 month duration although because of his size the vet has advised that it will last longer than this. This has been a really tough decision and comes after months of trying to train out some unwanted behaviours. Whilst there are many behaviours that he has that I think are undesirable there is only one that I find truly upsetting and that is his behaviour with some dogs. I used to think it was fear related, being attacked a few times (unharmed physically), he has always demonstrated real anxiety with certain breeds and particularly large dogs who were near or walking/running in his direction. However, I have started to think that it isn't all fear related. If he sees a dog his immediate reaction is to mark. If he sees a dog cock his leg his immediate reaction is to get to the pee rather than the dog and he still completely zones out if a dog comes too close. I deploy a number of strategies for different scenarios when we spot a dog and by and large we avoid confrontation but goodness it is hard work. Otto has only ever in my knowledge wagged his tail once when meeting another dog mostly he is stiff and his tail is rigid over his back. Most people I think would have castrated by now but I have not been ready to and I have always been worried that it might make things worse. He is nervous of children, again we have been working on it and whilst he ignores any walking normally, if small people are running towards him screaming we have a problem and have to get out of the way. He is reserved with some strangers, I can see he is nervous of them and he always backs off. Hence my great hesitation of knocking his confidence. So a long story but we are on a new journey of discovery. The implant should take a few weeks to kick-in and the first couple of weeks should see a surge in testosterone which I am prepared for. The things I will be observing for changes and coming back to are the following:

Incessant marking/cocking leg
Obsessive sniffing
Licking pee
Thrusting rear legs (kicking stones and grit all over me in the process) and grunting after toileting
Pulling towards dogs that have just pee'd
Pulling towards dogs generally
Zoning out when spotting another dog
Adopting a prowling type stance when walking towards dogs
Territorial barking (own home and garden)
Behaviour with strangers
Behaviour with dogs
Behaviour with children

There maybe new behaviours that he exhibits and I will post with updates as it may be helpful to others. I have a completely open mind on this and don't really have any expectations other than I hope it helps Otto. If anyone has got any experience of using the implant I would love to hear from you. I have read all the posts here on the subject and maybe some have updated info.

Hi Julie

It will be interesting to hear how you and Otto get on.

Just an FYI that Oscar was neutered the old fashioned way at 6 months old (and in hindsight, my wife and I are upset that we didn't wait longer but we were newbie owners and guided/swayed by our vet practise) and he still marks/cocks his leg and sniffs around, smelling for where to mark

Not constantly to be honest but a lot and the territorial barking I don't think will ever go away, especially with a Schnauzer

Hope all goes well.
Mike

Thanks Mike, I agree, a lot of of these things are breed traits and I am not expecting those things to alter.

Why would anyone want to neuter a healthy male??????

We have had over 30 years of healthy males. We introduced them to Dog Sport in Switzerland und sie all lived a healthy and happy life until maybe 11-15 years.

I would prefer this thread not to be controversial and knock anyone's reasons for neutering or not. I just want to share my experiences of using chemical castration and my reasons that's all.

Hi Julie,

While I have no experience of owning a dog, always having chosen to have bitches, this is a very difficult choice we all face with our schnauzers. Rosie, you may remember, developed Pyometra immediately after her first season and the timing was taken out of our hands. I say timing, as we'd always intended to spay her. Currently we are struggling with the decision about whether or not to spay Edie but it seems that it will be more likely that we won't spay her.

I'll be interested to follow Otto's journey on this thread. I know that you only have his best interests at heart.

Loving your new thumbnail Sam.

Oscar 12345 wrote: ↑02 Apr 2019, 12:03 Loving your new thumbnail Sam.

Thanks Julie,

My wife (also a Julie) took it when we out walking on Sunday afternoon

Look forward to reading more of your experience with this as I have no knowledge of using Suprelorin with any of our dogs.

It is a product that needs careful consideration with small breed dogs and those with dog on dog issues but it will be interesting to see how it works out with Otto.

Thank you for setting up the thread as it is always useful to read personal experiences on the Forum

Very interested to read how this all pans out. The option to castrate Ollie was taken away from us as he was already "done" when we got him. I think we probably would have still opted to have him neutered at some point.

He is now nearly 6 and still sniff sniff sniffs a spot and paces it before weeing. Constantly feels the need to mark every lamppost, gate, blade of grass! Etc.

He also does the strange stalk pose/zoning out when he sees another dog. Almost like a cat rather than a dog in stance and prowl. I suppose we haven't known him any different so interested to find out how you get on. He barks madly at people passing the house until they are out of sight and he also barks randomly in the garden. Again hard to know what he was like before the chop so not sure if this is just in inbuilt trait. Keep us updated!

Otto has had the 6 month implant and all went well, just took a few seconds. £106 was the cost for the consultation, implant and gravy bone Vet said that it would take a few weeks for the testosterone to disappear and his smaller testicles would be very noticeable by then. He said in his experience he had never seen a dog's aggression get worse through neutering so he was very optimistic about the affects. He confirmed that the implant would last longer than 6 months and asked to see him in about 8 weeks to get some feedback. Some reviews I have read have seen implants last double that amount of time and this can be seen with dogs smaller than 10kg and even those that are at the tested weights. All the negative reviews I have read on the implant are regarding the duration of the castration (e.g longer than anticipated) and subsequent effects on intended breeding programmes and also the long term effects of the quality of sperm again for owners who had intended to stud (eventually).

Have to admit to feeling very anxious about it all. I am going to continue with the training over this period.

Good luck and look forward to hearing how Otto progresses.

Try not to worry. I don't think there are any side effects other than those you mention re breeding, length of time it lasts so I am sure Otto will be fine

10 days since implant

In the last couple of days I think I have seen the testosterone "surge" that is usually seen following insertion of the implant. I have deliberately kept Otto away from all unknown dogs since having the implant. He has had a grumble at a few dogs from the other side of the road which is unusual and also getting him to walk on is challenging. The sniffing has been even more obsessive. He seems even more aloof with strangers than usual. His occasional stubbornness of not wanting to walk in my direction or refusal to move and plonking down of bottom at times has returned, I had forgotten what that was like and I would sum it all up as though it appears my 10 month old Ninja has returned. Hopefully this will soon pass as the testosterone starts reducing. Nothing else has changed so far.

Thanks for the update Julie.
I just had a thought as reading viewing from an outsider perspective. The plonking bum down may not be a "return" of old behaviour it could be him reacting in the same way to a different stimulus. Puppys often do that if fear full or unsure of the surroundings so want to stop and access situation. His head is probably all over the place at the minute as you say hes sniffing more so his level of awareness is obviously higher so it stands to reason he maybe feeling overwhelmed.

Exactly 3 weeks since having the implant. The return of adolescent stubbornness seems to have passed as quickly as it came. Otto's testicles are a little smaller but no behavioural changes to note yet and I have to be careful not to see things that aren't there. No signs of any bump at the implant site, the data sheet does state that some dogs can experience soreness and/or a lump at the site. No change in weight and I have slightly reduced the amount of raw he is getting.