Looking Up At The Ceiling

[Maty]

My mini started 'fly catching' around 7mths old. She would slowly tip her head back as if she was watching something crawl across the ceiling then she would snap towards her tail. She would repeat this several times then just return to normal. This would happen 3 or 4 times a day. The vet diagnosed epilepsy and said if it got worse she would need medication. However it gradually reduced and finally went away altogether after a couple of months. She had another couple of bouts over a the next two years but they never seemed to get worse in severity. Then I suddenly realised it seemed to start up quite soon after her getting a spot on flea treatment. I checked out the treatment and found people had reported all sorts of problems with their dogs after this flea treatment. I have never given her the flea treatment again and she has never had the problem since and she is now eleven.

She also had a problem with licking which improved when I changed her diet to hypoallergenic. She still has a habit of licking her paws sometimes but mostly when she is bored.

Was it one you can buy from the supermarket?

[lizw]

Buster used to stare at the ceiling too. He was diagnosed as having "petit mal" (small fit) and we were told to monitor for full epilepsy, which thankfully never developed. Interesting about the flea treatments ....


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[jacdales]

Hamish just started chewing his paws this morning I saw the farmer spraying his fields on Sunday right next to my garden I'm worried he has picked up some spray on his feet I washed them with baby wipes till I can bath him tonight my other 3 don't seem to be bothered. I did notice though that my wee welsh has got greassy and smelly again. She has been fine for a year now since I changed her diet to raw. I tried to think what she could have had out of her normal routine and the posts above reminded me she had a vet prescribed frontline flea treatment last month I haven't used it for a while but I thought with the warmer weather on the way I would treat them all .

[schnauzy]

Hi Maty, The treatment was Frontline and the food was James Wellbeloved.

[Daisys Mum]

I have had this exact reaction with Daisy using vectra 3D, spoke to the vets today it's new to them so haven't had any other reactions, but on YouTube searching vectra dog spasms brings up loads.

[blackdog]

I would be grateful for some updates from older posts, or any new ideas, as my 1 year old schnauzer has recently started doing this.

She really looked like she is hallucinating, and actually seeing something darting around, she then arches her head backwards. She also licks her paws and tries to clean her eyes/nose and will also quickly turn around to bite around the base of her tail like she has an itch. She is conscious and if we distract her by playing ball etc., these actions will stop. She is also fine in the park, plays well, loads of energy etc.
When she has this strange behaviour it seems to come on all of a sudden and has now been occurring on and off for the last fortnight.
I have checked her eyes, bathed her and given her antihistamine tablets, she is on Lily's kitchen dry food.
We are currently just monitoring her before speaking to the vet as she is completely well between episodes.

[zeta1454]

I would be grateful for some updates from older posts, or any new ideas, as my 1 year old schnauzer has recently started doing this.

She really looked like she is hallucinating, and actually seeing something darting around, she then arches her head backwards. She also licks her paws and tries to clean her eyes/nose and will also quickly turn around to bite around the base of her tail like she has an itch. She is conscious and if we distract her by playing ball etc., these actions will stop. She is also fine in the park, plays well, loads of energy etc.
When she has this strange behaviour it seems to come on all of a sudden and has now been occurring on and off for the last fortnight.
I have checked her eyes, bathed her and given her antihistamine tablets, she is on Lily's kitchen dry food.
We are currently just monitoring her before speaking to the vet as she is completely well between episodes.

There are a few threads on the Forum covering this topic if you do a search under " star gazing " - there is a link to one here:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=21225" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Our very first miniature schnauzer did start these kind of "fly biting" and similar behaviours intermittently when she was young, flinging back her head, staring at the ceiling and occasionally seeming to be losing awareness of her surroundings. We did consult the vet ( this is nearly 20 years ago now) and we were told to just monitor it and only come back if it became frequent or worsened which it did not. It lessened and eventually stopped without treatment of any kind.

Some people believe the reaction is due to the use of certain flea treatments such as Advocate and there is a thread on that too:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=21905" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There has also been a study which seemed to show a link between this kind of behaviour and a gastro-intestinal issue:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4204840/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Neurological issues in dogs can be triggered by a range of causes from genetics to environmental toxins, chemical anti-parasitic treatments to vaccines but, if you do decide to take your little one to the vet it may also be worth mentioning the possible link to the gastric issues triggering this behaviour as highlighted in the above article.

Let us know how things go with your schnauzer and fingers crossed that it resolves of itself.

[Leena]

New here! I basically landed on this thread as my mini started showing these symptoms last night. Looking at the ceiling, snapping in air, running back and forth frantically, trying to chew his back side and licking his foot. He is 1yr and 4 months and I did not understand what was happening. I gave him a bath (thinking there might be a fly/ant/something) that might be bothering him. That seemed to calm him down and he slept for a while.
He is still showing some of that behavior and I have him scheduled for a complete check- up tomorrow. But it was really helpful reading this thread and to see that there are other people + mini's going through it and ts manageable! Thank you.
Hoping its not something serious..he is a sensitive guy and this thing is really stressing him (and me) out!

[Dinkum]

Watson had something similar last year. He would look at the ceiling, turn round in circles, trying to chew his bum and licking his back legs.

Turned out he had a blocked anal gland. Once the vet had expressed it, the behaviour stops.

It was scary at first, because you read of stargazing and seizures and you really worry.

Worst thing about anal glands, is the smell.

Let us know how you get on today.

[Oscar 12345]

Yes my Sister's schnauzer had exactly the same symptoms when her anal glands were impacted. If it does happen to be anal glands, do let us know and do come back on here, there are many on here that can perhaps help/chat about diet that can help prevent anal gland problems.

[Lou78]

We had this exact same thing when Ollie had an infected anal gland. He still does this occasionally but we have his anal glands expressed regularly. and have changed his diet We are worried at the moment as the behaviour is returning (not all the time, just on and off) and he is long over due an "express". Our vets have said it isnt on their "emergency" procedures they are doing at the moment. That's as may be but it will be an "emergency" when he has an infection again! They know he suffers from it and it took 2 lots of antibiotics to clear last time. Can't say i am terribly impressed with our vets on the whole but maybe i wasn't pushy enough, apparently they are back to "normal" next week so i may have to get my "Pushy Schnauzer Mum" pants on!!! Anyway, that is a different story! Good luck!

[Oscar 12345]

Louise, get those pushy pants on. Silly vet of one of my friends is wanting to do a telephone consultation for a tooth problem.... how's that going to work I ask myself. Can't believe that vets aren't on the list of key workers. People clearly not understanding how important our pets are for our mental health.

[Schnauzerluv]

My Snoop was looking at the ceiling too and pawing/scratching his eye. It sort of looked like his eyes were flipping back, and his head flipped back slowly. It looked really weird I remember.

Turns out it was a cyst/tumor under his top eyelid. I would have never seen it! He had surgery to remove the tumor and we had it biopsied. Luckily it was benign and he never displayed those symptoms again.

[Bojangles]

Hi All,

I just wanted to add to the Stargazing knowledge base with our mini schnauzer Gloria's experiences.

Gloria is just under 2y/o. About six weeks ago she started Stargazing. I have since noticed that the behaviour is exactly the same behaviour she displays if an actual fly buzzes past her head. The only difference is that with the stargazing, she repeats the same movement every time. In Gloria's case she starts looking down to her left behind her and then follows "the fly" up and across her body to the right, and then tilts her head right back and looks at the ceiling. She might then start the process again, or lick her lips, or get up and move. She started sitting in corners (I guess for security) in places that she did not usually go, and although she is not a great one for affection anyway, she definitely didn't want any stroking, or interaction with humans at all. She would move to another corner or room if we tried.

The other major behaviour she displayed is whipping round to look at her bottom - as though she had been poked or stung or bitten. Each time it was like it came as a complete surprise to her

Some days were worse than others, but she displayed these behaviours every day at some point - usually when she was resting with nothing else going on.

If distracted with dinner, or a walk she would rarely show any signs of a problem. I almost never saw her do it on a walk, or when playing.

I read on here on one of the other Stargazing threads that it might be anal glands. The flicking back to check her bottom behaviour pointed to that possibility so we took her to the vets, showed them a video and asked what they thought.

They thought the problem was neurological! They agreed to check her anal glands anyway. She did NOT like it one bit, I have never seen her so unhappy, and I felt terrible for her, but they expressed quite a lot of pretty unpleasant matter. The vet explained the reasons behind the anal gland problem - and gave her some medicine for gastro-enteritis which we treated her with and we were hopeful that (with this forum's help) we had solved the problem.

We hadn't.

Once we got home, she was at it again. Mostly it didn't really seem to bother her, and she was distractible, but occasionally she would have a bad bout and seem agitated and a bit distressed by it. We then noticed a lot of head shaking and that one of her ears smelled strange and was greasy. We took her back to the vet.

The vets were still of the opinion this is a neurological condition and referred her to Dick White's for assessment. They also looked in her ear, decided she had an ear infection and prescribed topical antibiotics and ear wash.

Long story slightly shorter - the ear infection didn't clear up, the stargazing improved but did not go away, and we postponed the DW assessment because we wanted to ensure we'd exhausted all other possible causes first. Back to the vets. This time for a culture.

A week later the vets announced that she had 'trace' evidence of a bacterial infection that was resistant to the antibiotics they had prescribed. They gave her some new antibiotics - and for the first time in about five weeks Gloria started to get a bit better.

Within five days she had more or less stopped all Stargazing and flicking round, and by the time the ear drops ran out at ten days she had completely stopped. She is now back to her normal, barky, unsociable, demanding, charismatic self.

We have concluded that (in Gloria's case) the stargazing is a response either to pain, or disorientation. If her ear infection was hurting her, or affecting her hearing then perhaps this was the result. I've read on here that at least one specialist thinks this is an OCD type response to pain or gastro issues. It's evident that (for some Schnauzers at least) this is a behavioural response to some types of illness. Gloria's behaviour has been very very similar to the descriptions collected on this board over the last ten years. It seems a typical response. When she started the behaviour she had (unknown to us) Gastro-enteritis, unexpressed anal glands and an ear infection.

I just wanted to post a story with a solution, because so many vets seem to leap to the fits/neurological conclusion. I'm sure they are often right in general terms - clearly it is a strange manifestation, but it is not always caused by an actual brain disorder, sometimes it seems it can be caused by external factors, and if they are treated it goes away.

I hope I'm not tempting fate by posting this - but Gloria has been fine for about 2-3 weeks now and it definitely improved as her ear infection receded.

Sorry to be so long winded - but I hope this might help someone in the future worried as we were about this odd behaviour.

[zeta1454]

Hi James and thank you for sharing your experience with Gloria. It is always helpful to have personal accounts of how things have worked out for particular dogs and I am really happy to hear that you have resolved Gloria’s problem eventually and that it was well worth persevering with your instincts on this one that it was not a neurological condition