Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
-
- Member
- Posts: 1592
- Joined: 02 May 2017, 11:28
- First Name: Julie
- Dog #1: Oscar RIP Sweety
- is a: P/S Mini Dog
- Born: 21 Dec 2002
- Dog #2: Otto
- is a: B/S Mini Dog
- Born: 04 Jul 2017
Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
I know there is lots of info on the web regarding this awful illness but this is rather an interesting, simple to understand article for those wanting to know a bit more about the possible causes.
https://dogsfirst.ie/health-issues/caus ... s-in-dogs/
https://dogsfirst.ie/health-issues/caus ... s-in-dogs/
Man cannot survive with wine alone...
we also need a schnauzer.
we also need a schnauzer.
- Schnauzer Sam
- Member
- Posts: 743
- Joined: 28 Sep 2017, 20:40
- First Name: Sam
- Dog #1: Rosie
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 06 Jul 2017
- Dog #2: Edie
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 11 Jun 2018
- Location: Guernsey
Re: Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
Some great reading here about the possible causes of many problems for modern dogs. I've never seen this site before and it got lots of great info about RAW feeding which I'm considering changing Rosie and Edie onto. I've given them bits of raw frying steak and raw lamb ribs (both from Waitrose and they went down very easily with no ill effects.
Thanks for the link Julie.
Thanks for the link Julie.
Country Girl at Heart (Molly) 8 April 2003 - 22 December 2018
You're never alone when you own a schnauzer
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Rosie-and-E ... 872588622/
You're never alone when you own a schnauzer
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Rosie-and-E ... 872588622/
-
- Member
- Posts: 1592
- Joined: 02 May 2017, 11:28
- First Name: Julie
- Dog #1: Oscar RIP Sweety
- is a: P/S Mini Dog
- Born: 21 Dec 2002
- Dog #2: Otto
- is a: B/S Mini Dog
- Born: 04 Jul 2017
Re: Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
Hi Sam
Interesting you say you are considering changing to raw. Any particular reason? I am considering it too. just can't seem to get Otto's tummy sorted. He is on a really good human grade food but I think he is struggling to digest the veg in it and I have yet another mucusy poop this morning, something is irritating his gut. So disappointing really. I have just started him on the YuDigest tablets but if I don't get good results I will have to consider changing his food. I worry that you can't give (or shouldn't give is perhaps more appropriate) raw and cooked so what on earth do I use for treats when grooming etc. or for recall. I use a little cooked liver at the moment when out on off lead walks and microwaved salmon or tuna for grooming treats. Good to hear you get on with the lambs ribs. I gave Otto one and as it was his first I held on to the end whilst he had a good chew. I was worried that little sharp shards of bone came off so I haven't fed another one since. Keep us posted on your research and what you decide to do. Would be great to diary for us if you decide to change.
Interesting you say you are considering changing to raw. Any particular reason? I am considering it too. just can't seem to get Otto's tummy sorted. He is on a really good human grade food but I think he is struggling to digest the veg in it and I have yet another mucusy poop this morning, something is irritating his gut. So disappointing really. I have just started him on the YuDigest tablets but if I don't get good results I will have to consider changing his food. I worry that you can't give (or shouldn't give is perhaps more appropriate) raw and cooked so what on earth do I use for treats when grooming etc. or for recall. I use a little cooked liver at the moment when out on off lead walks and microwaved salmon or tuna for grooming treats. Good to hear you get on with the lambs ribs. I gave Otto one and as it was his first I held on to the end whilst he had a good chew. I was worried that little sharp shards of bone came off so I haven't fed another one since. Keep us posted on your research and what you decide to do. Would be great to diary for us if you decide to change.
Man cannot survive with wine alone...
we also need a schnauzer.
we also need a schnauzer.
- zeta1454
- Moderator
- Posts: 5140
- Joined: 19 May 2011, 16:58
- First Name: Leigh
- Dog #1: Magic
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 20 Apr 2010
- Dog #2: Trilby
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 15 Mar 2012
- Dog #3: Pip
- Born: 21 Feb 2014
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Location: North Yorkshire
- Contact:
Re: Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
Thank you for the link re Pancreatitis, Julie
Re raw feeding, I have heard that it can be safer to feed raw meat from companies who market specifically for dogs as they are (almost?) always supplied deep frozen at very low temperatures which will kill off certain pathogens. Meat intended for human consumption is sold with the understanding that it will be cooked and therefore there is always the possibility that certain bacteria in the meat may cause an issue for a dog with a sensitive digestion. I am sure that quality human grade meat from a good source will be fine for healthy dogs and especially those who are raw fed but it is worth bearing in mind, if you are thinking of moving to raw totally and probably more a concern with chicken than steak.
I wouid check out a few of the best raw dog food suppliers as to their sources and the ingredients, if you do decide to experiment with raw feeding your dog/s. There is a wide range of "meals" from those including some fruit and vegetables through those with added oils (salmon / flax seed / coconut etc. ) and / or added supplements while others are purely meat. The general recommendation for dogs that are fed more or less exclusively raw is for the diet to be 80% meat; 10% offal and 10% bone which should provide the necessary nutrients for good health (minerals and vitamins, proteins and fat). Some raw food suppliers have "complete" meals that may be quite high in fat and, although naturally occurring fat in meat / fish should not be an issue for most dogs, it is worth checking the fat content as some miniature schnauzers cannot tolerate high fat or should not have high fat due to health issues.
You will find a range of views from raw feeders as to whether or not dogs need anything other than meat / fish ; those that advise against mixing raw and cooked; those that advise against mixing raw and kibble and no doubt other approaches too. I would encourage anyone thinking of trying their dogs on a raw diet to focus on what works for their dogs and not to feel that any particular approach is written in stone or never to be questioned.
Only speaking from personal experience (but that is from feeding puppies and adult dogs over a period of nearly 12 years now), our dogs have all done well on raw food and it would always be my first choice. We do use cooked meat cut up small for training treats and also dried cooked chicken and liver. Our dogs each have a dried fish skin cube treat at bedtime and we do use (grain free good quality) kibble pieces for games especially for puppies but also as a quick treat for adult dogs on occasion. We have never found an issue with giving kibble or cooked / dried meat treats and would not worry about this unless a problem arises with a particular dog. Dogs are by nature scavengers and their digestive system is designed to cope with different types of food on occasion. I do believe that most will thrive on a raw meat diet but that does not mean they cannot cope with non raw treats in moderation. Some raw feeders can be a bit dictatorial / fundamentalist about what is and what is not "allowed" but I think it is better to research a quality home made or pre-prepared diet and tailor the choice of ingredients and nature of treats to what suits your own dog/s.
Re raw bone shards from lamb ribs, these should not be a problem as the stomach acid will soften them as they pass through the digestive system. Cooked bones are another matter and are definitely a risk to health. If a dog is predominantly raw fed, the acidity in their stomach will rise and therefore the risk is reduced even more. The main issue is to have bones large enough that the dog cannot try to swallow them whole and choke, or too hard (weight bearing bones) that they may damage teeth with them.
Look forward to hearing more, Sam and Julie, if you do decide to change. It will be interesting to see how you get on
Re raw feeding, I have heard that it can be safer to feed raw meat from companies who market specifically for dogs as they are (almost?) always supplied deep frozen at very low temperatures which will kill off certain pathogens. Meat intended for human consumption is sold with the understanding that it will be cooked and therefore there is always the possibility that certain bacteria in the meat may cause an issue for a dog with a sensitive digestion. I am sure that quality human grade meat from a good source will be fine for healthy dogs and especially those who are raw fed but it is worth bearing in mind, if you are thinking of moving to raw totally and probably more a concern with chicken than steak.
I wouid check out a few of the best raw dog food suppliers as to their sources and the ingredients, if you do decide to experiment with raw feeding your dog/s. There is a wide range of "meals" from those including some fruit and vegetables through those with added oils (salmon / flax seed / coconut etc. ) and / or added supplements while others are purely meat. The general recommendation for dogs that are fed more or less exclusively raw is for the diet to be 80% meat; 10% offal and 10% bone which should provide the necessary nutrients for good health (minerals and vitamins, proteins and fat). Some raw food suppliers have "complete" meals that may be quite high in fat and, although naturally occurring fat in meat / fish should not be an issue for most dogs, it is worth checking the fat content as some miniature schnauzers cannot tolerate high fat or should not have high fat due to health issues.
You will find a range of views from raw feeders as to whether or not dogs need anything other than meat / fish ; those that advise against mixing raw and cooked; those that advise against mixing raw and kibble and no doubt other approaches too. I would encourage anyone thinking of trying their dogs on a raw diet to focus on what works for their dogs and not to feel that any particular approach is written in stone or never to be questioned.
Only speaking from personal experience (but that is from feeding puppies and adult dogs over a period of nearly 12 years now), our dogs have all done well on raw food and it would always be my first choice. We do use cooked meat cut up small for training treats and also dried cooked chicken and liver. Our dogs each have a dried fish skin cube treat at bedtime and we do use (grain free good quality) kibble pieces for games especially for puppies but also as a quick treat for adult dogs on occasion. We have never found an issue with giving kibble or cooked / dried meat treats and would not worry about this unless a problem arises with a particular dog. Dogs are by nature scavengers and their digestive system is designed to cope with different types of food on occasion. I do believe that most will thrive on a raw meat diet but that does not mean they cannot cope with non raw treats in moderation. Some raw feeders can be a bit dictatorial / fundamentalist about what is and what is not "allowed" but I think it is better to research a quality home made or pre-prepared diet and tailor the choice of ingredients and nature of treats to what suits your own dog/s.
Re raw bone shards from lamb ribs, these should not be a problem as the stomach acid will soften them as they pass through the digestive system. Cooked bones are another matter and are definitely a risk to health. If a dog is predominantly raw fed, the acidity in their stomach will rise and therefore the risk is reduced even more. The main issue is to have bones large enough that the dog cannot try to swallow them whole and choke, or too hard (weight bearing bones) that they may damage teeth with them.
Look forward to hearing more, Sam and Julie, if you do decide to change. It will be interesting to see how you get on
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras
Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud
https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/C ... 916994967/
Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud
https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/C ... 916994967/
-
- Member
- Posts: 1592
- Joined: 02 May 2017, 11:28
- First Name: Julie
- Dog #1: Oscar RIP Sweety
- is a: P/S Mini Dog
- Born: 21 Dec 2002
- Dog #2: Otto
- is a: B/S Mini Dog
- Born: 04 Jul 2017
Re: Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
Leigh thanks for that info. I shall have another go with the lamb ribs, hopefully when his digestion settles. Could you remind me what you feed your dogs on and would you feed anything different if you just had the one dog? Also, do you do anything special with the dog's beard after they have eaten?
Man cannot survive with wine alone...
we also need a schnauzer.
we also need a schnauzer.
- Schnauzer Sam
- Member
- Posts: 743
- Joined: 28 Sep 2017, 20:40
- First Name: Sam
- Dog #1: Rosie
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 06 Jul 2017
- Dog #2: Edie
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 11 Jun 2018
- Location: Guernsey
Re: Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
Thanks for the information and encouragement Leigh.
It's impossible to source raw food from the UK here due to the logistical problems of transporting small quantities of frozen food but I have managed to find someone who imports shop quantities of Nutriment raw food and sells it on to the public. They do a starter pack of 10 x 500g - 2 salmon, 2 duck, 2 turkey, 2 beef, and 2 chicken for the princely sum of £18.80
Julie, Rosie used to suffer from upset tummies (runny poos etc) but since switching her onto a Yudigest everyday things have been perfect. No problems whatsoever.
The reason I'm considering a change is really down to Rosie. She used to dance round the kitchen in anticipation of getting her food but now she has little interest in food. She loves home prepared food such as roast chicken and veg or home cooked stewed steak and veg but I can't be a slave to the cooker for her
I really don't want my girls to be eating high carb diets when it's alien to their instincts.
Edie will eat most anything and both girls love Forthglade - the dry versions or Aatu but when I tried them on some raw food they both enjoyed that. I'm really trying to make both girls happier at mealtimes.
They both chomped away on the lamb bones, at one stage Edie was chomping away and the next minute it was gone!! I looked in her bed as I thought she's hidden it under the cushion but no - she'd downed the rib!
It's impossible to source raw food from the UK here due to the logistical problems of transporting small quantities of frozen food but I have managed to find someone who imports shop quantities of Nutriment raw food and sells it on to the public. They do a starter pack of 10 x 500g - 2 salmon, 2 duck, 2 turkey, 2 beef, and 2 chicken for the princely sum of £18.80
Julie, Rosie used to suffer from upset tummies (runny poos etc) but since switching her onto a Yudigest everyday things have been perfect. No problems whatsoever.
The reason I'm considering a change is really down to Rosie. She used to dance round the kitchen in anticipation of getting her food but now she has little interest in food. She loves home prepared food such as roast chicken and veg or home cooked stewed steak and veg but I can't be a slave to the cooker for her
I really don't want my girls to be eating high carb diets when it's alien to their instincts.
Edie will eat most anything and both girls love Forthglade - the dry versions or Aatu but when I tried them on some raw food they both enjoyed that. I'm really trying to make both girls happier at mealtimes.
They both chomped away on the lamb bones, at one stage Edie was chomping away and the next minute it was gone!! I looked in her bed as I thought she's hidden it under the cushion but no - she'd downed the rib!
Country Girl at Heart (Molly) 8 April 2003 - 22 December 2018
You're never alone when you own a schnauzer
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Rosie-and-E ... 872588622/
You're never alone when you own a schnauzer
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Rosie-and-E ... 872588622/
- zeta1454
- Moderator
- Posts: 5140
- Joined: 19 May 2011, 16:58
- First Name: Leigh
- Dog #1: Magic
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 20 Apr 2010
- Dog #2: Trilby
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 15 Mar 2012
- Dog #3: Pip
- Born: 21 Feb 2014
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Location: North Yorkshire
- Contact:
Re: Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
Julie - we have over the years used a number of different suppliers since our initial choice of Natural Instinct which was one of the first companies to offer home delivery of quality raw meals for dogs. Personally I find NI and Nutriment (which we have also used) too finely minced and can be mushy. We have used Wolf Tucker regularly and I do still think this is a good company. They have a more limited range of meats than some brands but the mince is chunkier and there are not too many additional supplements. More recently we have found a local supplier of Paleo Ridge meals which are delivered free to our home. Paleo Ridge is very focused on quality and ethical sourcing of meat (does not use halal meat and the venison is from a known estate in Scotland). The complete meals are mostly quite low in fat and the meat is much less finely minced so more to chew on for the dogs which, according to our vet is better for their dental health. However, it is just meat - no added ingredients / supplements at all so, if you did want to include vegetables or fruit etc. you would need to blend some to add yourself.
https://paleoridgeraw.uk
We are happy so far with Paleo Ridge but will monitor how the dogs do with it as some of the meals do include some more "exotic" meats and we are experimenting with what suits them best.
A downside of Paleo Ridge is that the meals come only in 1 kilo packs so not ideal if you only have one dog. Wolf Tucker do mainly 500g tubs but have just recently introduced a "small dog" range which comes as a pack of ten x 150g portions. Our mini schnauzers are on different amounts per day with Magic having about 140 g (2x70g) and Trilby and Pip, who seem to have a faster metabolism, have approx. 200-220g each (2x 100 / 110g). The recommendation is around 2-3% of bodyweight but you do need to take account of individual metabolism and amounts of exercise in my experience as some dogs may need less and others more than that. In answer to your question, if I only had one dog I would in all likelihood use Wolf Tucker as I don't like to keep the meat once defrosted for more than a couple of days and a kilo (from Paleo Ridge) would last five days for one mini schnauzer.
https://www.wolftucker.co.uk
Re their beards, I don't do anything about cleaning them after a meal unless there was obviously food caught up in it. I know some people do use a wet wipe or soaked flannel to clean their dog's beard but we have never had any health issues ourselves from being with the dogs without cleaning beards so have not felt the need.
Seeing how the dogs trail their noses (and beards) through grass, undergrowth and sniff pee and poo on a regular basis on walks, I think we would be forever cleaning them if we worried too much about bacteria etc. However, that is my personal view and, if anyone needs (for health reasons or just reassurance) to wipe the beards after a raw meal, that's fine and wouldn't do any harm for sure
https://paleoridgeraw.uk
We are happy so far with Paleo Ridge but will monitor how the dogs do with it as some of the meals do include some more "exotic" meats and we are experimenting with what suits them best.
A downside of Paleo Ridge is that the meals come only in 1 kilo packs so not ideal if you only have one dog. Wolf Tucker do mainly 500g tubs but have just recently introduced a "small dog" range which comes as a pack of ten x 150g portions. Our mini schnauzers are on different amounts per day with Magic having about 140 g (2x70g) and Trilby and Pip, who seem to have a faster metabolism, have approx. 200-220g each (2x 100 / 110g). The recommendation is around 2-3% of bodyweight but you do need to take account of individual metabolism and amounts of exercise in my experience as some dogs may need less and others more than that. In answer to your question, if I only had one dog I would in all likelihood use Wolf Tucker as I don't like to keep the meat once defrosted for more than a couple of days and a kilo (from Paleo Ridge) would last five days for one mini schnauzer.
https://www.wolftucker.co.uk
Re their beards, I don't do anything about cleaning them after a meal unless there was obviously food caught up in it. I know some people do use a wet wipe or soaked flannel to clean their dog's beard but we have never had any health issues ourselves from being with the dogs without cleaning beards so have not felt the need.
Seeing how the dogs trail their noses (and beards) through grass, undergrowth and sniff pee and poo on a regular basis on walks, I think we would be forever cleaning them if we worried too much about bacteria etc. However, that is my personal view and, if anyone needs (for health reasons or just reassurance) to wipe the beards after a raw meal, that's fine and wouldn't do any harm for sure
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras
Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud
https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/C ... 916994967/
Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud
https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/C ... 916994967/
- zeta1454
- Moderator
- Posts: 5140
- Joined: 19 May 2011, 16:58
- First Name: Leigh
- Dog #1: Magic
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 20 Apr 2010
- Dog #2: Trilby
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 15 Mar 2012
- Dog #3: Pip
- Born: 21 Feb 2014
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Location: North Yorkshire
- Contact:
Re: Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
Sam - I do appreciate that trying to get prepared raw food for dogs outside of the U.K. is variable and in some places impossible or hugely expensive. Although I did pass on the information I have read re the freezing of human grade meat for dogs, I do know personally people who raw feed their dogs with home prepared meat from the butcher and have never had any issues with their dogs. For me, the ready prepared meals have been easier to deal with as I am vegetarian and would not choose to be chopping up meat and offal if I can help it. However, if you wanted to make up meals for Rosie and Edie with meat from a reputable source, you may find it cheaper than the branded meals, easier to adapt to your girls preferences and no need for huge freezer space either!
There is a link here to a useful site with information for novice raw feeders and a starter guide:
http://www.rawfeedingrebels.com
http://www.rawfeedingrebels.com/wp-cont ... rguide.pdf
Good to hear that the Yudigest is proving successful. Another staple we have in the house for tummy issues with the dogs is Dorwest Herbs Tree Barks powder which is also very useful for pancreatic support too:
https://www.dorwest.com/product/tree-ba ... -and-cats/
There is a link here to a useful site with information for novice raw feeders and a starter guide:
http://www.rawfeedingrebels.com
http://www.rawfeedingrebels.com/wp-cont ... rguide.pdf
Good to hear that the Yudigest is proving successful. Another staple we have in the house for tummy issues with the dogs is Dorwest Herbs Tree Barks powder which is also very useful for pancreatic support too:
https://www.dorwest.com/product/tree-ba ... -and-cats/
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras
Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud
https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/C ... 916994967/
Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite
Trilby - Darksprite Rosa Bud
https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/C ... 916994967/
-
- Member
- Posts: 1592
- Joined: 02 May 2017, 11:28
- First Name: Julie
- Dog #1: Oscar RIP Sweety
- is a: P/S Mini Dog
- Born: 21 Dec 2002
- Dog #2: Otto
- is a: B/S Mini Dog
- Born: 04 Jul 2017
Re: Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
Sam, that's really encouraging to hear on the YuDigest thank you. Really hoping it does the trick.
Leigh, thanks for that, very helpful.
Leigh, thanks for that, very helpful.
Man cannot survive with wine alone...
we also need a schnauzer.
we also need a schnauzer.
- Schnauzer Sam
- Member
- Posts: 743
- Joined: 28 Sep 2017, 20:40
- First Name: Sam
- Dog #1: Rosie
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 06 Jul 2017
- Dog #2: Edie
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 11 Jun 2018
- Location: Guernsey
Re: Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
I picked up a couple of samples from the outlet of Nutriment on the way home from work - a puppy one for Edie and an adult one for Rosie. The lady was very helpful and gave them to me free of charge. The food is on the draining board thawing out for the morning. She opens again on Saturday morning so if all goes well with my pair I'll pick up my 10 pack introduction pack. I'll let you know how we get on.
Country Girl at Heart (Molly) 8 April 2003 - 22 December 2018
You're never alone when you own a schnauzer
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Rosie-and-E ... 872588622/
You're never alone when you own a schnauzer
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Rosie-and-E ... 872588622/
-
- Member
- Posts: 1592
- Joined: 02 May 2017, 11:28
- First Name: Julie
- Dog #1: Oscar RIP Sweety
- is a: P/S Mini Dog
- Born: 21 Dec 2002
- Dog #2: Otto
- is a: B/S Mini Dog
- Born: 04 Jul 2017
Re: Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
Sam, Leigh, do you think we should start a new thread on this - on the lines of Rosie and Edie go on RAW........ (play on go on tour - see what I did there ) would love to hear how you get on and what differences if any you see. I will wait eagerly for updates...
Man cannot survive with wine alone...
we also need a schnauzer.
we also need a schnauzer.
- jacdales
- Member
- Posts: 889
- Joined: 18 Jul 2013, 13:07
- First Name: Jackie
- Dog #1: Hamish
- is a: P/S Mini Dog
- Born: 28 May 2013
- Dog #2: Suzi
- is a: P/S Mini Bitch
- Born: 13 Jun 2017
- Dog #3: mahri
- Born: 20 May 2006
- Location: Peterborough
Re: Article on pancreatitis in dogs.
I've just changed over to Honey's real dog food The service was excellent they do no veg low fat food for poorly dogs and have a lot of information about the safety of bones and raw feeding. Someone on this forum recommended them . I have had my first delivery and the dogs seem to like it better than the raw mix they were on. I like it because it is a bit chunkier and lower in fat. Team schnauzer are healthy I just want to keep them that way so it made sense to get the lower fat.
https://honeysrealdogfood.com/about/
https://honeysrealdogfood.com/about/