Help showing aggression

[Mix+Otto-RALF+Rudi]

Rudi is now nearly 10 months old, he is a lovable BIG soppy dog. Going through a stage where he goes deaf and does not
always listen, but he is still only young. We go training every week and carry this on at home every day.


Just lately though when taking him on walks he has started to bark and sometimes growl at certain dogs, (not all dogs) which has really surprised me. Anybody else out there experienced this, I would really appreciate your view, comments
on his actions.

I have been informed that this is 'learned behaviour' by one person and also been advised to,think about castration because
he could be reacting to dogs that are intact.

Castration would be the last thing I would consider and only when he has reached around 2 years if it comes to that.

Added info I have two mini Schnauzers also at home which are intact, and they all get on.

I thank all members for their remarks and comments in advance

[Robin black mini]

Hi Linda..
My comments will be based on my very dominant ,German import rottie,who we successfully competed in obedience ,but went through similar behavior around this age..
I'd say..

Rudi is still a pup/ adolescent...hormones will be as high as seven times that of an adult male...this is a time for confrontation on his part and reaction on the part of the mature male dogs he will encounter. Keep calm,reinforce his training and perhaps increase his lessons during this time.

During this period(and it will pass). try to keep his encounters positive.
Steer clear from known" bolshie " dogs and let him socialise with the " good eggs".

They do say adolescence is when it seems all our training goes out the window,but persist and everything will come back...
Definitely do not castrate him at this time of turbulence,if at all... Think of him as a teenager,not the man he will become..plus ,I'd consider going back to a long line ,if he is at risk of a dog fight...this would be the worst scenario he could face at this time and would definitely have long term ,negative impact on his development whilst he goes through this phase.

[Mix+Otto-RALF+Rudi]

Thankyou for your reply, it has reinforced my initial thoughts.

Castration is definitely the last thing if at all I would think of doing.

Like you state he is still very much a puppy, and hopefully this is a stage in his life.

We will walk him and like you say steer clear of the dogs he is not happy with at the moment. I keep reading that
Giants mature and become better around the age of two years, we will hang in there, and hopefully reap the benefits.

Like I said he is such a lovable dog, we have just hit a bit of a rocky road.

Many many thanks for your reply, much appreciated.

[Dawnspell]

They can also go through a second fear stage around this age. In which case castration would be the worst thing possible and would make matters worse.

Barney still intact, although a mini almost changed over night a couple of weeks before his second birthday. He just matured, and calmed down. Giants its more around 3 years old but I'm not sure about standards.

[Mix+Otto-RALF+Rudi]

Hi

Just noticed my post has shown up in the Standard Schnauzer category, must have Clicked incorrectly, please note Rudi is a very big Giant Schnauzer, which when he does take a dislike to an to another dog it is quite a handful for me.
The amount of people who give me that look, as if to say get your dog under control. I feel like wearing a sign stating he is still a puppy not a full grown dog!

[Lou78]

Hi there,

Can't offer much in the way of "tried and tested" advice but this was our experience with Ollie...

He came to us at just turned 1 year old. He was atrocious on on-lead walks and would growl and bark and pull towards any dog we saw. Great off lead...he can trot up to whoever he likes! He was already castrated when we got him (not our choice but, there you go; what was done was done) so i can't compare him intact to castrated.

He is 4 in June this year and despite lots of work on our part (mainly distraction; lots of "look at me", lots of "what's this?", lots of holding treats infront of my face and "hypnotising" him with it!) he still sometimes has a little low growl towards some dogs, not always audible but i can feel a vibration up the lead! Mainly black labs he doesnt like (no idea why!) but other dogs he can ignore completely. He will stop dead in his tracks and perk up, ready to start but i just keep walking and change my voice (i talk to him all the time!) and he is broken out of whatever thought he is having!

The distraction technique did work; but you have to keep doing it, like anything i suppose.

99% of the time i can go out without treats now but there was a time when i couldnt leave the house without. Now just putting my hand in my pocket tends to distract him enough!

I know in the above comment Alison says Barney calmed down just as he was 2. I would say this has been a bit later with Ollie, maybe 2.5 -3. He is a lovely boy though and so glad we persevered. Keep going, they are so worth it in the end!

[zeta1454]

I agree with the above comments regarding the advice not to castrate him (certainly at his present age) and that, with patience and continuing training on your part, he should grow out of this adolescent behaviour with time.

If you are struggling to control him on lead, it may be worth looking at a dog head collar which can help with dogs that get excitable or pull strongly. They are not a substitute for training but can help to calm and focus a dog that is inclined to just turn a deaf ear to commands and/or is proving too strong for the person walking them.

A new-ish product which has had excellent reviews can be seen on this link:
http://www.dogmatic.org.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And one that has been around for many years:
http://www.gentleleader.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We have used these in the past with our minis if walking a number together in a challenging situation such as a busy country show or city. Our current dogs are pretty relaxed going out but we have had individual dogs who could get very stressed in certain situations and the head collar really did help

[blackgiant]

Could you please clarify if this is an on-lead or off-lead issue.

It makes a difference.

Thanks

[Mix+Otto-RALF+Rudi]

Hi

In answer to your question this happens when he is on a lead. We have also noticed that 80% of the time it happens when the dog is black. We have been advised by a dog trainer that dogs do react to black dogs. Any comments on this.


Once again many thanks for all your comments and replies.

[zeta1454]

Hi

In answer to your question this happens when he is on a lead. We have also noticed that 80% of the time it happens when the dog is black. We have been advised by a dog trainer that dogs do react to black dogs. Any comments on this.


Once again many thanks for all your comments and replies.

Dogs will almost always be more likely to be reactive on lead as they are aware that they cannot escape if they need to and therefore want to warn off any potential aggressor (even if the other dog actually presents no threat). This can still diminish as a dog matures but not always.

The issue of black dogs being seen as more of a trigger to barking /reacting is certainly something many do believe to be the case. Interestingly a black dog in the village (on lead) always barks at our black dogs but much less likely with our P&S mini schnauzers...and our black dogs bark at him

I have heard that the black dog face is less easy for a dog to "read" and therefore they are more wary of dogs of this colour but I would not generalise on this necessarily to all black dogs.

[blackgiant]

I would suggest that you're getting too close too quickly to other dogs.

On-lead brings in personal space issues. With some dogs that is 2m with others it is 200m.

When my Lottie was young she was very frightened by people (usually when they didn't have a dog with them). It took me a while to work out that her eye-to-brain co-ordination was very slow so she couldn't cope with what was coming towards her. I started throwing a ball for her and it took a while for her to able to catch it. I worked on this and also throwing biscuits until she could catch any small biscuit without any effort. This improved her eye-to-brain co-ordination which helped her deal with situations and not panic.

I would recommend going back to basics to work out at what distance Rudi is happy and can cope.
It is harder for your dog to read the facial expressions of black dogs from a distance so sometimes you end up being too close.

I find that many people have what they call friendly dogs but who actually have poor manners. Therefore when my dogs are on lead I do not encourage them to freely meet other dogs - that is for when they are off lead.

The maximum meet-and-greet time for any on-lead dog meeting another on-lead dog is 3 seconds. At this point the dogs should be moved away from each other. This can be repeated as often as you want but do not go over the 3 second limit.
The reason for this is that after 3 sec. the dogs move round each other and often become trapped by the lead which can result in various problems.

Clicker training is a very powerful way to engage your dog and focus them on you. If you don't already do this I would suggest Rudi would enjoy it as they love to use their brain - especially when treats are involved.

I hope some of this helps

[Riesen16]

I've been through this with a 45 kg German Shepherd and I agree with Black Giant's comments that you are getting too close too quickly.

I did IPO training with my last three dogs and in most dog clubs here (Switzerland) they teach one how to pass by other dogs without any trouble, starting from a reasonable distance and reducing it as the dog reacts as he should. I learned many years ago that when a dog pulls or barks on the lead, he is being disrespectful to you.

Heel training is training the dog to walk by one's side and is not achieved so quickly. The dog is not allowed to bark or pull on the lead. Jo will know this from Obedience training with a Rottweiler (applause).

If Rudi has a favourite ball or kong and you can get him to "love" this, you could also distract him with it. I have a ball that is on a thin rope which I wear and can tap it or give it to the dog when out walking.

My dogs have to heel through the village 2-3 minutes and then I lengthen the lead to let them sniff and have and pee but the males were not allowed to lift their leg whilst on the way through the village.

Enya GS/PS is improving. Luckily she doesn't bark or growl at other dogs but she would pull me to them if she could. I make her sit by my side "Heel" until the other dog has passed. It isn't the perfect solution but I'm perservering.

I don't let her run free at the moment as I want a 100% recall from her. However we have lots of fun together with games on the sports field or in the garden.

I'm glad you aren't going to castrate him - it won't solve the issue.

BTW although all dogs have good noses, Schnauzers have excellent noses!! Tracking would be something for Rudi maybe. Also hide his favourite ball in the house or garden and let him search for it. Enya loves doing this and will never give up until she finds it. I make her sit behind a door while I hide it, inside or out, then tell her to sit and I first let her go when she is sitting quietly.

Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day ;)

[shipwreck1964]

I agree with alot of the comments posted on here. We have had similar experiences with Otto out=r 2 year and 2 month old Giant Schnauzer. We still class him as a puppy as he is still such a goof ball and coming out of adolescence. Your Rudi is smack bang in Adolescence. As other posters have said this is when the testosterone levels are off the chart and he will start testing the boundaries with not only you but also other dogs. It can be an infuriating and disheartening time and the tendency would be to avoid other dogs when out for a walk. But this is the last thing you should. Socialisation should still continue under controlled circumstances with other dogs in order for Rudi to get to know the correct and polite way to approach and greet another dog/cat/human etc. This way and it is a long process he will come out the other side a well mannered adult dog. Our dog Otto is still intact 28' at the shoulder and weighs around 41 KG. He still has the odd grumble with other male (intact) dogs not all. But we quickly step and let him know this is unacceptable behaviour. Otto on occasion finds some neutered males very attractive (they give off female pheromones) and will try to mount them and not leave them alone. Again we step in and advise him that this is not acceptable behaviour. As each days and weeks pass he is getting better and better and these incidents are few and far between as he is almost out of Adolescence and his testosterone levels are getting stable.

If there is one last piece of advice I can give. It is to socialise Rudi as much as you can. It really is the best way for any dog owner to educate a dog in the correct way to behave around dogs, cats, horse, people, inanimate objects etc. It involves a lot of time and effort but benefits the dog and ultimately you at the end of the day. The last thing you want is to have a 40 plus KG hand grenade at the end of the leash. Best of luck.

[Mix+Otto-RALF+Rudi]

Thankyou for all your replies.

Rudi is now thirteen months old, and I must say seems to be a different dog to a few months ago, although I realise that we still have a way to go.
When we go on walks we meet and greet many dogs and I must say Rudi is well behaved, he has only reacted with barking to a few dogs, no growling though.

Otto is a lovely handsome dog, and I agree with your comments regarding GS. You have to show them who is boss, Rudi appears to more receptive to commands, he definitely does listen, he is a lovable, sooooo lovable goofy dog.

He is getting on with our other two Mini Schnauzers Otto and Ralf, Rudi is very careful around them considering his size, whereas before he would walk all over them.

You really do have to be one step ahead with a Giant, I left some cooked chicken thighs, on the kitchen top in a place so I thought, where Rudi could not reach. I came down the stairs and I could hear Rudi chewing on something, as I walked in the kitchen he was tucking into his third chicken thigh, he looked at me with those big brown eyes and burped !
Lesson learnt keep kitchen gate closed when food about.

Giant Schnauzer def hard work, but all worth it, ;)