The Great Decision - Mini or Standard?

The Standard Schnauzer is a working or utility dog and is the original breed of the three sizes. Standard Schnauzers are generally a robust, squarely built, medium-sized dog with aristocratic bearings.
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Lesbreits
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The Great Decision - Mini or Standard?

Post by Lesbreits »

Hello everyone,

To begin with, this will be a long post... :D

But let me start by saying just how glad I am to have found this forum filled with wonderful and touching schnauzer stories and tips on puppy discipline.

This post is not intended to be a biased debate comparing the minis and the standards ^:)^ as they're both unique and truly amazing breeds and I love them both. But I'm in a bit of a quandary and hoping to reach out to owners who have either one, or both!

After much research and deliberation, my husband and I have finally decided on a schnauzer. We started out wanting a standard for the following reasons:

- they are not as common (particularly black) therefore less likely to be puppy-farmed by unscrupulous breeders, and we like it being the "original" breed;
- they are good-sized, robust dogs with this rambunctious personality we find very alluring;
- we are active and outdoorsy, my husband is a marathon-runner who wants a dog to chalk up the miles with him. We both love travelling and would like to take the dog on our adventures here and abroad;
- we actually find the much-lauded 3-year puppy phase highly amusing (we may only be saying so as we've yet to experience it!)
- we're not technically first-time pet owners as we've had a pug and 2 feisty cats between us during our childhood/adolescence. Perhaps for a standard, some might argue we should be considered as such!

Having braced ourselves to have a standard pup in our lives, our hopes were quashed when two breeders (KC-assured) told us they would never sell us one because we live in a flat in London! Their reasons being - 1) a standard needs a large yard to "tear around in"; and 2) it will wreck my flat even if there is ample space for it.

So here we are reaching out to standard owners on this forum, particularly those who have successfully raised a pup/ live with one in a flat/ apartment:

- How have you found your experience having a standard in a high-rise/ walk-up? Does your dog settle in calmly after a healthy bout of exercise outside?
- How much exercise is actually enough for a standard? We've read anything ranging from an hour to four a day!
- How true is it that a girl is more biddable and manageable than a boy?
- Is there actually a difference in temperaments between a black and a P/S?
- Isn't it better to have a loving and responsible owner in a flat with a good-size balcony than one who just leaves the dog to romp around alone in the yard?
- A breeder told us we should NEVER (she said this with emphasis) let a standard off-leash, whilst another said we can, provided we are prepared to wait hours for it to find its way back, and once home to chew up furniture and eat everything that's within reach :-s. Having read some of the more positive and heartwarming stories of standards here on this forum, we know this is not always true.

As for minis we would really appreciate owners' thoughts on:

- How much exercise is too much? Of course we won't be out running with our dog until it's about 2 years old, but how much trekking, running at heel etc. can a mini take? Before we get hurled with mild abuse here, we just want to clarify we're no duracell bunnies, but we like being relatively fit and healthy. And no, we don't intend to wear it out everyday with vigorous exercise and yes we do love our couch and telly too!
- Would a male mini have more energy than a female?
- Are they more suited for apartment life only because they're smaller?

We live in an area surrounded by parks, canals, professional dog walkers, trainers and groomers, so there are plenty of nature, facilities and distractions to keep either one happy. I will be the main caretaker as I work frequently from home, and also from a dog-friendly office. My husband will do early morning toilet runs and evening exercises, and I'll cover the day schedules including walk, play and cuddles!

Thanks everyone!
LigginsC
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Re: The Great Decision - Mini or Standard?

Post by LigginsC »

So we have one of each at the moment.

A 3 year old black standard and an 11 year old S&P mini, technically my Mum's but we are all on the same site so they just move between the two residences. If I am honest, I could not imagine having a standard in a flat for all the reasons you have clearly picked up. Our boy is an absolute delight but he was hard work for the first 2.5 years and had/has boundless energy, however, he is settling and after a good walk, couple of hours, twice a day he does settle down and is fine. Interestingly has always been quieter in the mornings, really not a morning chap. We do have a large garden which he hs access to and does spend a lot of time outside in the summer, he just loves sunbathing.

The mini is a little star and until very recently was usually found whizing along with Bradley without missing a beat and would run with me but did find my husband's pace a little more tricky, but she is a particularly tiny mini. I can she her in a flat because she has always been more flexible around the amount of exercise she has, although she is as busy in the garden as the Standard, if not more so. So much to check out and so little time in her world :-)

Neither of them has at any time shown any inclination to be destructive but we worked tirelessly to ensure we had no trace of seperation anxiety and the longest they are ever left is 4 hours and I think that has happened twice in 3 years.

The biggest bonus for us with Bradley up until he was two years was attendance at 'doggie day care' one day a week - it was the making of him. It ensured we have a super-socialised dog and it meant he got lots of stimulation and activity with his doggie friends.

As you articulate both sizes have their pros & cons, however, as I say I really could not envisage a standard in a flat - sorry.

Good luck with your search, whichever version you finally decide on they will be a delight and become a much loved member of your family.
redalert
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Re: The Great Decision - Mini or Standard?

Post by redalert »

I have 2 standards, absolutely wonderful dogs but with loads of energy. The eldest is now 7 and you would think she is a pup! Both of them go to day care everyday while I'm at work, so, when they come home at night, they are totally chilled and just snooze till its time to go to bed, be it in the garden or on the sofa. If you were to have a standard then I would strongly suggest day care and every day, to use up all that energy they have, if you didn't do that, then I do not think a standard would be suitable for a flat and I can understand the breeders saying no to you. Day-care is expensive, but it would enable you to have the dog of your choice and the dog would be very well socialized, neither of my girls are afraid of any dog, big or small and the owner of the kennels puts my girls in with "less balanced" dogs to help them.
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Riesen16
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Re: The Great Decision - Mini or Standard?

Post by Riesen16 »

Having braced ourselves to have a standard pup in our lives, our hopes were quashed when two breeders (KC-assured) told us they would never sell us one because we live in a flat in London! Their reasons being - 1) a standard needs a large yard to "tear around in"; and 2) it will wreck my flat even if there is ample space for it.

Hallo Wendy

Thank goodness you question everything you hear.

Our first dog was a Landseer we bought in England. One breeder in Switzerland told us we should never go on hiking tours with him. We waited until he was about 2 years' old and he lived to be 12.

Isn't it better to have a loving and responsible owner in a flat with a good-size balcony than one who just leaves the dog to romp around alone in the yard?

Of course it is :)

We have a female GS-PS after having various large breeds - all male. Not all females are more docile than males - Enya is a feisty Madam!!

As for tearing around the yard on his own - what will he learn from it.

I am not in favour of day care centres. It is not popular in Switzerland. But we have very many training clubs and groups for Working Trials, Obedience, Agility, Mantrailing, etc.
I am in favour of training my dog mself (with help from Husband of course).

Most Schnauzers large or small are destructive when they are young if left to their own devices. We have a large kennel box for Enya and although she would like to carry on "annoying" us, there comes a time when she becomes overtired and needs a sleep.

Very often Schnauzers large or small are "shredders". When we go out we put her in her kennel. She is not yet 2 and she is very inventive!!

We always had two dogs but waited until the older one was about 14-16 months' old before buying a new pup. Mostly the older dogs were well trained at the time. I read a lot that people buy another pup so that they can play together. I can't think of anything worse. It seems today that nobody has the time, energy or knowledge to train a pup.

As for exercise, I am adamant that just letting the dog run free or going for 2-4 hour walks will not tire out a dog such as a Schnauzer.

Tracking (there are videos on the Net and books about it. One can start off with little tracks of a few yards for the pup after he has settled in. Hiding articles in the house and letting the pup/dog search for them (one at a time) is very good. Schnauzers are known for their excellent nosework.

OK letting any pup free outside is not a good idea. A 2 metre line is advisable so that in the woods, etc. the pup can have a good sniff around. On the street I have Enya on a short lead and she has to walk to heel (nearly there!!)

I call Enya "here" in the house or garden and she comes bouncing back to me and gets a treat of kibble or whatever. I am still reluctant to let her off the lead in the woods but in time I hope this will be possible.

Schnauers (and a lot of other breeds) need to have their minds occupied. Just running free isn't enough. They love to have their owners show them all sorts of activities. Just throwing a ball is ok but not enough.

I wish you luck with your choice. As to colour, I wouldn't like to state what difference.

You sound like ideal pet owners.

BTW Enya is from Bavaria.

Regards
Gill
flugelboneman
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Re: The Great Decision - Mini or Standard?

Post by flugelboneman »

We have been owned by a mini, a standard, and now have another std s & p male who is four months old. We are senior citizens in our '70's. We looked at each other last nite as asked, if we had remembered what it was like to live thru schnauzer puppyhood, would we have done this again. After some discussion, we agreed that we have no regrets, in spit e of living with a whirling devish with tiny teeth that chew everything in site, much like a piranha, the indiscreet puddles , the wild hours between 7 and 9 PM every nite. Already he has filled our home with a life and energy that was missing. The person that stated never let a std off-leash is mislead. Our last std would go his own way off leash and not come when called, but always eventually come on his own. This little guy is better off leash than on. Once off, he trots along beside us, even when distracted or when other dogs come by. They all have their own distinct personalities and I am certain they are influenced by the humans and home they are reared in. IMO the std schnauzer is the elite of dogdom. There is a reason they call them the dogs with the human brain. I also believe they evaluate those who are around them and quickly conclude whether they are the Alpha Dog or you are. Woe betides the human who abrogates this. They need love and firmness. They need consistency. Bringing a Std Schnauzer to adulthood is a full time job. If you cannot commit to this, pick another breed. Good Luck
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Writeress
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Re: The Great Decision - Mini or Standard?

Post by Writeress »

I do have a 1y8m old Standard girl in an apartment. My living room has enough space to throw a ball and get she running a little, but there's no much more space for fun than that. So we walk a lot and we ho to dog parks once a week. I wish it could be more often, but they are far from were we live and we need to get a car. So we walk a lot. We walk 2 times a day, 1h each. I would like to run with her or to get her running by my side on a bike, but I have an injuried knee and in my town there are no places safe for bikers in streets.

Are those walks enough to get her tired? Not really. She could go for a four hours walk and I think ahe would still be ok. When we get home, she asks for a playtime, always. But then she will be quiet. If there's someone at home, she will not take anything out of order. After we found the right toys for her, we have no problems with it. Nylabones and Kongs are a must have. But she gets really anxious when I leave. We have an anxiety due to separation here that is been a problem and we are considering getting a second dog because of it. And also because going to parks and playing with other dogs is what really drains her energy.

Someone mentioned dog day care. It's a great tool if you can afford. In my city I would use it, but there's only one in wich I trust and it's really expensive and far away from home. We are considering to take her a dog brother so she would settle with her anxiety, and I would get another Standard, but we are open to get a mini.

Something you should think about is barking. My girl is very silent, Minis tend to bark. In an apartment you can have problems with your neighbours.

In an apartment I also think that is easier to handle a girl. A male is always a risk about territorial behaviour and marked furniture. But I know lots of males who never, ever, ever urinate at home. About temper, a male always tend to be more agressive toward same sex dogs, but if you get it neutered, and socialized a lot, it can be managed.

I can't help about diffferences in temper by color. I guess this is a mith, but I don't think it's impossible to have any difference.

About wich owner is better, in my opinion, it's the owner who will be devoted to the dog the same way the dog will be devoted to the human. If you have not the space, but you have time to exercise your dog and to be present at home, you can be a great owner. And this is true for any dog breed.

I trained my girl to come back when off leash and she does it. I don't walk with her off leash because it's dangerous (cars, agressive dogs, trash), but I do trust she will get back. If you get your dog trained, you will find out when and where you can take off the leash. Here we do it in dog parks or at the beach.

Something you can invest on, and this will be good for any dog you have, is a dog toy called Trixie Memory Trainer. It's a dog feeder that the dog turns on by pawing a button. You can get this button to a room and have the feeder at another, so your dog will have to walk from a place to another to get feed, since he will get only a little amount of dog food at each time. We don't have this in Brazil and I don't find it to get delivered here, but UK Amazon does have it.

About minis - I know a lot of them - they suit very well in an apartment with. Energy levels depend on individuals, I know minis wich are couch potatoes and minis that are quite eletrical. A friend have a 5y Mini who doesn't care about toys - unless if filled with food - and can pass the hole day only being petted and sleeping. Another friend's mini is an agility champion who will still play hardly even after training a whole morning. The great mini issue, for me, is the barking. If you handle the barking (and getting your dog tired will help a lot on it) you have quite an amazing dog also.

Personally, I prefer the Standars. But be aware about the jumping and surfercountering. It's a breed trace and you can have the smartest food thieve in earth. A mini can also do that (the couch potato I mencionated once got about 500g of roasted chicken - with bones), but it probably will need a chair to get reach a table or balcony. A Standars doesn't. Mine jumps up my height - and I'm 1,65m - directly from the ground. And they do love to jump on people when they are happy - which I actually love, but it's dangerous
Atriumb
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Re: The Great Decision - Mini or Standard?

Post by Atriumb »

I have a 2 year old male Standard Schnauzer, black. He was a handful as a puppy, still is sometimes, but always has settled down very well at home. We live in an apartment and walk him 5 times a day around 30 minutes each time. He has never been destructive (except for paper), and he has the run of the house when we go somewhere. It has never been an issue. We take him on walks off-leash all the time since he was a puppy. He never goes too far away from us, and he''s always checking back to make sure we don't get lost. No special training was needed for this. That's just the way he is.

I agree with you that is better to have a dog in an apartment and give him a lot of time outside, that having a backyard and expect the dog to be happy just running around by himself. Nemo loves his walks when he can smell around to see what's new in the neighborhood, and although he is pretty high energy outside, at home he's pretty peaceful, has been since puppyhood. He just brings his toys to us for some playtime, but settles nicely otherwise. He is pretty headstrong, but I think that's the case with all Schnauzers. I don't want to give the impression that he's the easiest dog ever, he's very intense, and stubborn, and specially as a puppy he gave us a very hard time for a few months, but if you are willing to be patient, and firm and walk him often, I definitely recommend a Standard Schnauzer.
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Robin black mini
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Re: The Great Decision - Mini or Standard?

Post by Robin black mini »

I would vote for the standard.
I have a ST poodle and a mini schnauzer here..the former would be game for your husbands long run,on a daily basis..PROVIDED the dog has finished his adolescent growth, i.e. his growth plates have closed...ie after 14 months..he will be the best company for onlead running..
If my big boy has his daily run,he is the quietest house dog you could wish for..
MY mini schnauzer is good for a couple of hours walking ,then she is tired...my bigger dog could go another hour.
I am in Italy,the black standards are really "hard " ,old fashioned dogs ( in a good way) tough dogs...many have Russian, Belgian and German pedigrees...they have great wire coats and sparse furnishings.
The salt and peppers here are rarer, and much more "normal companion "dogs...many have USA input in their pedigrees and the characters are much softer.Their coats are softer too,with full furnishings...again the USA influence.
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Riesen16
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Re: The Great Decision - Mini or Standard?

Post by Riesen16 »

The Standard Schnauzer is the original Schnauzer. It has been said that it is harder to train than the Mini or the Giant Schnauzer which have been bred from other breeds to gain the size.

The Mini is very popular which makes me a little suspicious.

A larger dog is more likely to settle down than a small one.

We have had Landseer, Berger de Brie, Fila Brasilero, and 2 German Shepherds from Working Dog lines. They have all been quiet in the house.

Our Pepper Salt Giant still needs a lot of training but she doesn't bark at other dogs, is quiet in the house. That is the end of her good qualities :D

It's hard to say which dog would suit you best.

I know a number of very good breeders for Mini Schnauzers in Germany. Just let me know if you are interested.

My friend here in Switzeland breeds Mini Schnauzers. They used to breed Rottweilers as well.

It is difficult to find the right dog. Having said that, our Giant is very muscular - jumps over anything in her way - jumps onto chairs with ease etc. and given constructive exercise, i.e. training /tracking / searching for artcles or long walks, settles down easily.

I wish you well
Gill
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