Socialising

[on-the-coast]

What are your experiences with socialising... i.e. interacting with other dogs outside training classes or before training classes?

• Good or bad experiences?
  Is any socialisation better than none?
  Any problems you encounter?

[on-the-coast]

What are your experiences with socialising... i.e. interacting with other dogs outside training classes or before training classes?

• Good or bad experiences?
  Is any socialisation better than none?
  Any problems you encounter?

I remember a topic, where Joni (?) suggested that the dogs meet during a walk and on the second meeting have perhaps an off-leash play.

What about those meetings that you cannot control?
During walks?
On the dog beach? - what are the benefits? - what should best be avoided?

Do you find dog owners in general appreciative of a "dog-meet"?

I gladly receive any feedback!! (cool)

[MattW]

You need to have two things:

1. A solid generalised Recall.

2. You must be able to read the body language of not only your dog but others also. This comes with practice and time. If one dog is inviting the other to play but the other is saying "go away, leave me alone" it is at that point you should recall and if need be put the dog on the lead. If the other dog however is also in play mode then let them play. The more dogs Schu meets the better, even the odd aggresive encouter will teach him some life lessons, ie not to run straight up to other dogs. A young dog should lay or sit and wait for the correct signals. By doing this it is saying that it means no harm and is no threat.

matt

[on-the-coast]

good point Matt.... to remind me of the recall....

We all need to carefully watch each other in this situation.

Schu had a great PLAY with an 18month poodle IN our backyard. Really safe and good fun.
A first in Schu's life!

Other encounter today: an off-leash 100kg Bullmastiff girl....mad as a hatter - very frightening dog.

[Joni]

Hi

I don't think that you have any big problems with Schubert, so socialising should be a natural part of growing up. Recall is needed, although I do think even if you practice and practice recall - then graduate to a line, and then off lead, you will naturally have a few hiccups. Dylan has amazing recall, but it does not mean he won't ignore everything when he wants to!!!!!

You may find a book called Fight, by Jean Donaldson useful, as it sort of describes various different types of dogs, nervous, over confident, agressive etc and gives some ideas and examples of how to socialise them.

My advice would be to begin with, keep Schubert on a lead on walks to the park, beach etc and if you see people who are looking like they have kinda nice dogs then ask them first if it is OK for them to meet......then perhaps let off and let them play.

Matts advice about reading your dog and others critical. You need to understand (a bit!) of what they are saying to each other. And over time you need to understand how he plays. So for example, my dads springer is the friendliest chap you could meet, HOWEVER he plays rough and I mean rough, he will go for the other dogs neck and jump about and bark. So for example I would not let him play with Schubert if you met me, but if say another dog I know who plays rough asked me (well the owner) and we knew each other then fine.

Also you need to understand that growls and snaps are not always agressive. I consider Layla to be a good dog, with other dogs...but if a dog, especially younger overstepped the mark, she would growl or even snap (no contact) at the other dog to tell them so. This in itself is fine and may teach the other dog some manners, but it would not be acceptable if the other dog continued to let it eascalate, so it would be the repsonsibility of both me and the other owner to make sure the dogs had a little time out via distraction or the lead etc.

In play one dog may be constantly over powering the other, in which case it may over time turn into bullying etc. SO lots of different scenarios.

Generally with Layla I enjoy walking with people whos dogs have a little play with Layla and then they may trot along together and then go in the sea and then play and then walk etc, so it is not frenetic, I don't feel comfortable when it is relentless (Layla & Monty).

Play should be 'full on' at time but it should be pucntuated with seconds of pause or calm, if this is not happening, one dog is not getting it quite right and needs to learn a few manners.

I think in my experience, there are more dogs with bad manners than with aggression - but bad mannered dogs, give aggressive type meetings for a variety of reasons.

There is a lot of waffle here, but a couple of different angles.

[Sianny]

I've had people apologising for the snap (warning off) given by their dogs but I explained to them that I know what it's for and what it sounds like and they looked relieved that I wasn't someone that would misunderstand that!

[sugarbear]

Astrid you know I have 2 girls. Jasmin is only a year and is a barker at dogs/cats/horses. We started taking her on long walks with my neighbour. Now it wasn't my first choice, because, these 2 dogs are very big and jumpers. Always on me!!! To the point last year I stopped the walks. Decided to give it a try with all four dogs. Well she would scream at first meeting! Now I am happy to say she is running a head of us and watching, and learning from the other dogs. It is a 15 minute walk before we all meet.... it calmed ME down. The other dog must have noticed. He stopped jumping up on me. Jasmine is improving. I think one can learn a lot from watching dogs interacting.

[dannie_kl]

i think Joni and Matt have given excellent aadvice!

[puppypower]

Well I never took Jasper to puppy classes as my local one was, well I didnt find it a posative experience, so I just socialised on the walk. And yes in hindsight I should have had better recall and been more causious but I let Jasper see all dogs he met them on his terms, he met everything learnt how to be with older, younger and nervous dogs, he recieved plenty of growels like Sianny mentioned and more than a few rolls and scuffels, but I observed Jasper and the other dogs body language and also impotant the owner. If they were miles away from the dog on the phone or something I would put Jasper on the lead if they payed attention to the dog spoke to me I let the interation go ahead watching all the time.
I feel Jasper is well socialised, he will growl to warm but nothing more and only plays as ruff as the other dogs is happy to, what I am trying to say in a long winded way is to a certain extent I believe your dog has to learn on its own ( with supervision) sometimes the hard way, they often get a little to cocky and need another dog to put them in there place...

[Tulip]

Joni, that was a fantastic post!

[on-the-coast]

Humbled one more time!

Thankyou....I forget to see all those bits and pieces. I will carefully re-read and incorporate.

Two things happened yesterday:
On a walk at the beach we met 2 bullmastiffs. 1 female - 1 male - 11 months... each 80kg... I guess. The female wanted to eat first SChubert, then us.
The owner suggested to let Schubert play with the male Bullmastiff... I huffed and puffed and put my foot down and said NO, though the male LOOKED nice and friendly. I am glad I did. The reason was: that I know nothign about Bullmastiffs....
He could have stomped on Schu and Schu might be still frozen with fear.

But last night a local poodle, 18 months, with owners came past....we let the dogs sniff through the fence and "Choc" came in to play.
I haven't seen Schu play better EVER. Both dogs in absolute harmony and play-fight.
Very good end of the day.
And i will look at situations much more carefully from now on.

Thanks

[Tulip]

Mastiffs are usually pretty even-tempered, lumbering Giants. Maisy sits next to one in Ringcraft and it lays down so she can say hello without jumping up! Obviously all dogs are different, but yes, don't be put off by size, dearie!

[Joni]

I have a lot of owners panic when they see me with 2 large dogs, and whilst you need to be cautious with all dogs, it is easy (and i see many owners) panic about bigger dogs or 'agressive breeds' which can be transferred to the lead and the dog.

I never look at the size of the dog - start looking at the stance of the chest, the position of the ears, the stare (they should not be glaring at your dog). If I see a dog from some considerable distance clamp eyes on mine and then run towards, that would make me be wary with Layla and turn around with Dylan.

Look up calming signals on the internet with regards to dogs -this may also give you a useful insight to understanding dog communication too - it has helped me. Also look at the owner, I even look at myself, I know both my dogs are better with me when I am calm and authoritive, none of use can be always for various reasons, and the same applies to others, if they look fraught with dogs pulling them about - you are not on to a winner.

I have had a number of dogs which have been mistreated or such by people and I have over time got used to reading dogs & people, but I have never until Dylan had to look at dogs, so this is something new to me, and I have learnt a lot cause of Dyl, and we are coming up to a year together soon, and things are slotting in to place slowly now, but it is just all about learning and understanding them.

I was going to say something else too, but I have forgotten now! - Oh yes that is it - for your sake and other dogs, if you are in an off lead type area and a dog is on the lead, when all else are not, give them space - chances are they will have their own issues they are working through. And don't tell someone who has a dog on a lead that it is OK as your is friendly - big nightmare for dogs like Dyl - sorry little rant there to all!!!!

[on-the-coast]

Mastiffs are usually pretty even-tempered, lumbering Giants. Maisy sits next to one in Ringcraft and it lays down so she can say hello without jumping up! Obviously all dogs are different, but yes, don't be put off by size, dearie!

It has got nothing to do with the size or the weight of the dogs.
One of them was very aggressive and barking and the owner could barely hold her.
My judgement was informed and clouded by what I saw and heard from the female dog.
I was afraid and I have no experience and ultimately the responsibility!

It is MY lack of experience of gauging whether two dogs so different have a chance for a joyful play.
Esp. after I had been very ignorant, when I let Schu run on the beach where he pestered a Staffy female to the degree that the Staffy chased him and tackled him so he screamed.

I am out of my depth.

[on-the-coast]

I really liked the male mastiff....he looked a nice humble dog.... very cuddly.... but I need to learn more whatever the size so I can ensure a good meeting.

Making a tick list of all the things that I misgauged during the last three encounters.

I am now also understanding that I have to be vigilent with Schu. I understand that he pesters dogs, if they ignore him and he has decided he wants to play with them.
Fine lines... he is inexperienced and how naturally talented he is, I don't know.

My husband went with Schu to the male mastiff and the owner and my hubbie and Schu sat close and it was peaceful. So there.
LEARNING to read the individual dogs.