When to spay?

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mikegoodson1
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When to spay?

Post by mikegoodson1 » 03 Feb 2018, 17:41

Hi everyone,

Sorry to ask this again but Sasha is getting on for 4.5 months old now and I wanted to ask about when to spay. Originally, I intended to have Sasha spayed around 3 months after her first season. That was the general recommendation here when I last asked (before we got Sasha, I think).

My wife took Sasha to the vet on Friday for a general check-up/weighing etc and they strongly advised Sasha be spayed before her first season. They said there were more health benefits to spaying before she had a season than if we waited (reduced risks of some cancers). In fairness to the vet, they know we are going to have Sasha spayed with them anyway, so before or after a season doesn't impact them as such from a financial pov - I guess they are just offering us their advice. I'm sure many of you with female MS may have spayed before or after so is there really any difference? What's best for Sasha?

On a general note she is the most beautiful girl, VERY vocal and growls at any bigger dog but scurries away to our legs if they show any interest in her (like a general hello). She is feisty, doesn't take any nonsense and where as Oscar (our 2 year old boy MS) is quiet and easy going, she is not but to be honest, I love that fact. I love their characters and the way they look for one another when in the house or out on walks. They run around the house playing like a couple of dervishes some times!

Anyway, some new snaps of Sasha below.

Thanks in advance.

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schnauzer
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Re: When to spay?

Post by schnauzer » 03 Feb 2018, 19:35

Gosh Sasha is so cute enjoy as they grow so fast. You won't regret becoming a Schnauzer owner. We have Gino approaching 9mths who came to us in July after we lost our Suzi in April 2 weeks short of her 13th birthday. She was spayed after her first season on the advice of our Vet at the time, had her 1st season at 10months & spayed at 13 months. A healthy girl until she developed a mass in her lung I miss her so much but having Gino has eased the pain she has left behind. They are super little dogs as you will find out in time. Gino will be getting neutered in a couple of weeks.
Christine & Gino (Siglette Shadow (born 9/5/17

Suzi (15/5/04---13/4/17) (Sugarbabe) RIP loved you to the moon & back, miss you so so much precious girl

https://www.dogfriendlybritain.co.uk/wetnosesociety/170717UIcTK

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jacdales
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Re: When to spay?

Post by jacdales » 04 Feb 2018, 11:41

I have Suzi who will be 8 months on 9th feb. I intend to spay her 3 months after her first season. Our vet said it was up to us. I think if I leave it till after her first season everything will be in the right place and the more adult she is the better she will cope with a major operation.
Mahri airedale who will be 12 in May was spayed at 2.5yrs because we never saw her come into season. She has never had any problems. Elle welsh terrier was spayed after her first season and no problems in that area. She does have huge allergy issues but I do not think they are/were related. My first airedale was spayed at 5 yrs because she got pyometria. We had her as a show dog so she hadn't been spayed. My second airedale was spayed at 2 yrs because she had a badly broken leg when she was a year old (ran into a lorry when she escaped under the fence). She had two operations to fix it so the spaying was delayed.

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Robin black mini
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Re: When to spay?

Post by Robin black mini » 04 Feb 2018, 12:01

Robin came into season at six months and was spayed three months later...she is now threeyears old and is a healthy dog...but we do have to keep a handle on her weight.

I would have preferred to let her have a second season ,but we also have an entire male in the household and had to separate them during the season.this was hard on us all,but most of all on him...so we spayed after one season.
I would never spay a dog before the first season...they are not finished developing and you risk incontinence issues later on,joint issues,and general juvenile retained behavior....

The risks of delay..? Pyometriosis is a risk,but you look out for the signs and it's not common in very young dogs .Also,the vets like to talk about mammary tumours...you still have a good preventative risk if you wait till the second season,and my vet says any nodules are easy to remove before the dog has serious issues...the full mammary strip scenario is seen in older unspayed females,but is often used as a red flag for precocious spay advocates.

The only negative I saw in waiting for my girl to have a season was the effect on my boy...he was four years old,but entire...since going through a season with Robin,albeit separated,he does mark more outdoors,sniffs female urine,is more male bolshy etc...it's like a switch went on( he had lived for four years prior with a spayed female,,,no issues)
And this can also happen with neutered males,so you never know....but for my girls well being we decided at the very least to allow her to develop before we spayed....if she had been a really large breed ,like my rottie or dogue de Bordeaux I would not have considered spaying before two to three years.
Last edited by Robin black mini on 04 Feb 2018, 13:28, edited 1 time in total.

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zeta1454
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Re: When to spay?

Post by zeta1454 » 04 Feb 2018, 13:01

There really is no need to worry about waiting to spay Sasha until she has fully matured mentally and physically - either after her first or even, as said above, her second season.

There is a link here to a really comprehensive article by a vet, writing last year, which explains in much more detail the pros and cons of neutering and the statistical likelihood of certain conditions in entire and neutered dogs:

http://www.wolftucker.co.uk/blog/neuter ... -decision/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sasha looks lovely in your photos too :)
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mikegoodson1
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Re: When to spay?

Post by mikegoodson1 » 05 Feb 2018, 10:27

Thanks to everyone who replied and offered their views :-bd

I will speak to my wife and re-assure her that we really are best to wait until after Sasha's first season before spaying her.

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Re: When to spay?

Post by TracyB2016 » 06 Feb 2018, 11:01

Bit late to the table but thought I'd answer anyway....
Lexie was spayed after her first season. Vet said that they get hormones at the season that ensures that she is mature, she said that if we did it before she wouldn't get that last lot of growth hormones and remain slightly "puppyfied" (my words, not hers lol).

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Re: When to spay?

Post by Schnauzer Sam » 07 Feb 2018, 12:02

My mini S&P Rosie is now 7 months old and has just gone into season. We plan on having her spayed at end of May.

I've had a mini bitch before and she was spayed before her first season on the advice of our vet (in Northern Ireland). Rosie dribbles a little with excitement when we return from leaving her and the vet's advice (here in Guernsey) was to ensure that she had all the hormonal benefits of having had her first season otherwise it was more likely that this peeing would not abate with maturity.
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Re: When to spay?

Post by jacdales » 07 Feb 2018, 16:52

Just thought I'd mention Suzi has come into season not sure when it started perhaps last week, she will be 8 months on 9 feb she also dug a big hole in the flower bed yesterday she was covered in mud when she came in. I was in the garden with her just not paying 100% attention.

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Re: When to spay?

Post by Fergus » 07 Feb 2018, 20:28

schnauzer wrote:Gosh Sasha is so cute enjoy as they grow so fast. You won't regret becoming a Schnauzer owner. We have Gino approaching 9mths who came to us in July after we lost our Suzi in April 2 weeks short of her 13th birthday. She was spayed after her first season on the advice of our Vet at the time, had her 1st season at 10months & spayed at 13 months. A healthy girl until she developed a mass in her lung I miss her so much but having Gino has eased the pain she has left behind. They are super little dogs as you will find out in time. Gino will be getting neutered in a couple of weeks.
Christine, We have not decided whether to have fergus done yet. Do you believe there are heath benefits?
I seem to find evidence from both camps.
Fergus is such a wonderful boy, I would hate to risk changing his behaviour.

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Re: When to spay?

Post by zeta1454 » 07 Feb 2018, 21:20

Fergus wrote:[
, We have not decided whether to have fergus done yet. Do you believe there are heath benefits?
I seem to find evidence from both camps.
Fergus is such a wonderful boy, I would hate to risk changing his behaviour.
This is not to interfere with Christine's reply to your query, of course, but just to add from our experience with three of our male dogs over the years. Our first male miniature schnauzer, born in 2000 and no longer with us, was shown for several years and as a result was not castrated. We did have two other minis, both female and both spayed. He did at times become "excited" around the girls which we put down to their seasonal hormonal changes even though they were spayed but it was not too much of an issue at all. When he was seven years old and no longer being shown, we introduced another male dog to our family who we intended to show and, as we were uncertain whether two entire males might become competitive / aggressive periodically when the girls were hormonal, we decided to have our older boy castrated at that time. It was one of those decisions which you cannot really know whether it is for the best or not. Our older male had always been sweet natured, never involved in aggressive behaviour with other dogs, and there may never have been an issue with the younger one but we did not want their relationship to deteriorate as the male puppy matured and so took that decision at the time. He remained the same sweet natured boy post- op and was very bonded with the younger male right up to his death in 2011.

Our second male dog was also not castrated until age seven (coincidentally) although this time the decision was made as we had started breeding and now had a couple of entire female dogs. Although we were managing the situation in practical terms when the girls were in season, he became so passionately aroused with no chance of mating that we felt he was suffering from being in such close proximity to them when they were in heat and, although we did explore other options to remove him from the home for the 'season', eventually the best option did seem to be to go with castration. Again he had never been any problem at all in any other way temperamentally, marking etc. and there has not been any noticeable change in his temperament (now age 10).

We also had a male dog rehomed with us at nine months old and we did have him castrated at a year old, for the same reason that we had chosen to have the older boy done. The younger boy had a very strong sex drive when the girls were in heat despite being neutered and continued to get aroused for three years post-op and actually achieved a 'tie' with one of them although obviously no productive mating could happen. His temperament too has not changed since being castrated.

Personally, if there are no pressing reasons why it is necessary to neuter a dog, I would be reluctant to do so. Obviously if there are worries over an accidental mating or behavioural issues that are getting out of hand, it may be helpful but the health reasons are minimal for a male in particular and not that great even for a bitch. Do check out the link in my post above re neutering which deals with the subject for male and female dogs. There is also a link here, although from the US which outlines the pros and cons for male dogs:

http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/health ... e-dog.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

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Oscar 12345
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Re: When to spay?

Post by Oscar 12345 » 07 Feb 2018, 21:51

Colin

I speak from experience with my last boy who I left intact because he had some wonderful behaviour. Never ever bothered around females, I used to think he was gay. The only downside was that other males were more often than not aggressive with him. This led to my husband and boy being bitten several times. This wasn't enough for me to have him castrated though. If you have a wonderful boy with wonderful behaviour there is no need to have him castrated - this is just my opinion. Otto my new pup might be different but I will wait until a year to really make up my mind as this jury is still out. Do what you think is right not what other people or literature tells you.
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Re: When to spay?

Post by redalert » 08 Feb 2018, 08:27

I had my girls both spayed at 6 months, this was a condition of their sale. Both girls sailed through with no problems, you wouldn't think they had had anything done the next day! My only advise is to have them sleep in the bedroom with you and closely watch them for 48 hours.

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Re: When to spay?

Post by schnauzer » 08 Feb 2018, 09:48

[quote="Fergus"][quote="schnauzer"]Gosh Sasha is so cute enjoy as they grow so fast. You won't regret becoming a Schnauzer owner. We have Gino approaching 9mths who came to us in July after we lost our Suzi in April 2 weeks short of her 13th birthday. She was spayed after her first season on the advice of our Vet at the time, had her 1st season at 10months & spayed at 13 months. A healthy girl until she developed a mass in her lung I miss her so much but having Gino has eased the pain she has left behind. They are super little dogs as you will find out in time. Gino will be getting neutered in a couple of weeks.

Christine,
We have not decided whether to have fergus done yet. Do you believe there are heath benefits? seem to find evidence from both camps. Fergus is such a wonderful boy, I would hate to risk changing his behaviour.

Colin

Gino is also super wee boy just like his brother Fergus, but when we visited my friend 2 weeks ago he lifted his leg in her house, & marked. We've been before & all fine but obviously growing up now. Couldn't believe this hence I had a girl first time round but she would try to mark when we visited Pets at Home. Gino has to have a large puppy tooth removed as the adult tooth has not pushed it out, so decision been made to neuter at the same time.
Christine & Gino (Siglette Shadow (born 9/5/17

Suzi (15/5/04---13/4/17) (Sugarbabe) RIP loved you to the moon & back, miss you so so much precious girl

https://www.dogfriendlybritain.co.uk/wetnosesociety/170717UIcTK

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Re: When to spay?

Post by inkaschnauzer » 08 Feb 2018, 14:20

WAit until she is fully developed. I know Vets want to spay them straight away when their body, bones etc is not fully developed. I know it is difficult when they come into season but I had 5 bitches and did not have them spayed so young


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