When to card or strip?

[BBub]

I've been reading the many many posts on here about stripping and carding, but would like some specific advice.
Our little puppy was pure black and silver and went to a groomer at 4months old, 2 months after we got her.
Over the last month her coat has begun to go grey and she's lost the black around the back and sides of the neck, and on a few areas on her body.
I assume this is due to clipping to the same length and now we're seeing the outcome of that.

As she's only been clipped once (apart from her puppy tidy up) we want to try and maintain the black on her body, and leave less of the grey.
What should we be doing first....carding the undercoat, or stripping the top coat, or both? Should we just keep clipping for legs and face?

I've put some photo's on of before and after.

[zeta1454]

From your photos, including the first one, I would say that Peppermint looks like a pepper and salt mini and, if that is the case, you will not be able to go back to her very dark puppy colour. It may just be the lighting in the photos so not sure. However, hand stripping the top coat will help to retain her true colour whatever that is. The furnishings on the legs and beard are scissored rather than clipped and also round the face. You can clipper the head as many do but this will result in a lighter shade colouring if you do this. Pure black and silvers would need the hair on ears and head stripped too to retain the black colour. There are some useful posts on puppy grooming in the Grooming section on the Front Page of this Forum too including this one which shows a black & silver and P&S puppy side by side:

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=25311

It can be difficult to distinguish when puppies are very young whether they are black and silver or just a dark P&S. The best way with pups soon after birth is to see if there is any lighter colouring on the ears which should be an indication that they are P&S. Was Peppermint from black and silver parents / pedigree?

[Schnauzerluv]

When I look at your pup (even the 1st pic), I see she is Salt&Pepper. The light hair on the top of the ears and her sides confirm that. That means if you hand strip, she will have nice banded hairs, but she be some shades of grey instead of black and silver. If you continue to clipper, she will have a softer coat and you won't see any hair banding.

My 1st mini Snoop was S&P but also black as a pup. I got him his first haircut at about 6 months, it was so funny, he was like a completely different pup. He ended up being a med grey (gun metal grey). My second mini Chelsea was also S&P, but a very dark S&P. She only lightened up a little bit to a sort of charcoal grey, but grey nonetheless.

If you are considering hand stripping, her hair will be a bit more difficult to strip since it's all the same length at the moment after being clippered, but still should be possible at her age/ stage to hand strip. I scissored the hair on my pup's head to start and afterward decided to hand strip and it was still possible.

Edit: Sorry I forgot to say, if you are thinking about hand stripping, start with carding or brushing out the undercoat. I use the Andis deshedding tool recommended here by a member Oscar (Julie). You could try tugging here and there on some hairs, see if they come out easily. At least that's what I did with my current pup. I'd say the hairs are coming out easier at about 10 weeks, but not sure because your girl was clippered once already (I mean I know it's possible to hand strip still, just not sure how easy the hairs will come out.

[Dawnspell]

I would also say pepper and salt it look as though there is some handed hair in there which you wouldn't have on black and silver. I could be wrong Leigh will know more than me but I thought black and silver's had a little white stripe across the top of the nose, or if they have the stripe they carry the black and silver gene can't remember which. In your introduction post photo there isn't any white there.

Some pepper and salt are really dark. There's Edie on the forum who is a stripped pepper and salt but she is almost black.

[Schnauzerluv]

My mom's S&P girl as a young dog, she was practically B&S all her life even being clippered.

Some stay very dark, others can lighten up to a light white silver, but generally the latter are lighter as puppies too. It looks like your little girl will be a med 'gun metal' shade of grey like my Snoop was. I just made up that shade name to help describe the colour/shade and it's only a guess as to which colour/ shade she'll turn out be.

[BBub]

Was Peppermint from black and silver parents / pedigree?

The mother was pure black, they said the father was black and silver but we never saw him. I guess they might not have known as accurately as you guys, this was a family breeder and they live on their own cattle farm....no pedigree docs but well known locally and only occasional litters.

[BBub]

When I look at your pup (even the 1st pic), I see she is Salt&Pepper. The light hair on the top of the ears and her sides confirm that. That means if you hand strip, she will have nice banded hairs, but she be some shades of grey instead of black and silver. If you continue to clipper, she will have a softer coat and you won't see any hair banding.

My 1st mini Snoop was S&P but also black as a pup. I got him his first haircut at about 6 months, it was so funny, he was like a completely different pup. He ended up being a med grey (gun metal grey). My second mini Chelsea was also S&P, but a very dark S&P. She only lightened up a little bit to a sort of charcoal grey, but grey nonetheless.

If you are considering hand stripping, her hair will be a bit more difficult to strip since it's all the same length at the moment after being clippered, but still should be possible at her age/ stage to hand strip. I scissored the hair on my pup's head to start and afterward decided to hand strip and it was still possible.

Edit: Sorry I forgot to say, if you are thinking about hand stripping, start with carding or brushing out the undercoat. I use the Andis deshedding tool recommended here by a member Oscar (Julie). You could try tugging here and there on some hairs, see if they come out easily. At least that's what I did with my current pup. I'd say the hairs are coming out easier at about 10 weeks, but not sure because your girl was clippered once already (I mean I know it's possible to hand strip still, just not sure how easy the hairs will come out.

That's really interesting...I guess we'll see what develops! Can you point me in the direction of what you mean by "banded hairs".

I've actually got an Andis deshedding tool on the way after reading about it on here and needing to avoid the ones that cut more hair then they pull.

[zeta1454]

Was Peppermint from black and silver parents / pedigree?

The mother was pure black, they said the father was black and silver but we never saw him. I guess they might not have known as accurately as you guys, this was a family breeder and they live on their own cattle farm....no pedigree docs but well known locally and only occasional litters.

There is some more information on mini schnauzer coat colour on this link:

https://www.miniature-schnauzer-austral ... schnauzer/

As Alison mentioned above, a white band above the nose can indicate that a dog carries the black and silver gene and two dogs with this gene even if they are not black and silver themselves may produce black and silver puppies but the pure B&S would be from a line of dogs that were this colour.

[BBub]

That's really good, thanks

I also found this, and ours has the banded flecked hair on the sides of her face...so she's a defintely not a black and silver according to this.

http://www.ilovemyminischnauzer.com/akc ... olors.html

[Schnauzerluv]

That's really interesting...I guess we'll see what develops! Can you point me in the direction of what you mean by "banded hairs".

I've actually got an Andis deshedding tool on the way after reading about it on here and needing to avoid the ones that cut more hair then they pull.

No problem, you got it right with your link, specifically this pic