Feeling overwhelmed trying to find a "good" breeder

Information on finding your puppy, the Assured Breeders Scheme, the Kennel Club and issues relating to breeding your Schnauzer are dealt with in this section.
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Scotsmonkey
Posts: 2
Joined: 11 Dec 2021, 15:13
First Name: Isla

Feeling overwhelmed trying to find a "good" breeder

Post by Scotsmonkey »

Hi, my family and I are searching for our first miniature schnauzer puppy. I have read extensively about how important it is to find a reputable breeder but I feel like I don't know where to begin!! (I'm very much a planner/researcher type of person and whether I'm buying a new hairdryer or a puppy I like to know all there is to know before making a decision and parting with my cash 😄)
So far I have got lists of recommended breeders from the schnauzer club and the miniature schnauzer club, I've looked on the kennel club website at their assured breeders and also the litters available and have also been looking on the champ dogs website. I've contacted quite a few breeders through the kennel club and champ dogs websites but have only had one reply so far from a lady to tell me she is no longer breeding. I phoned a lady who is very local to me (she is on the breed club lists and was also recommended by a friend who is a ms owner) who told me she has no puppies and doesn't know anyone who has at the moment. 😞
We are hugely excited about getting a dog (I've honestly been dreaming about this moment for about 25 years 😆) and I know we will likely have to wait a while longer but I would at least like to work out which breeders might be worth trying to contact as I've read we might have to go on a waiting list.
Does anyone have any words of wisdom? Or any recommendations of breeders in South/South East England (We'd be happy to travel a reasonable distance but would prefer if it was within an hour or 2 drive of Southampton so we could visit).

Also how much should I expect to pay for a puppy? I understand that prices sky rocketed during the pandemic but I've seen puppies advertised with prices varying from about £1850 to £2800. That seems like quite a range! Are good breeders likely to charge more because their puppies have super duper pedigrees? I don't mind paying a decent amount of money as I understand the hard work and investment that goes into breeding dogs in an ethical way but I am not that fussed about whether there are champions or exciting bloodlines from Russia or wherever, I just want a puppy that is healthy, from healthy parents, brought up in a loving environment that will be a great little member of our family.
It all just seems like such a minefield and I feel myself getting very stressed out over it when it should be an exciting time. I feel almost envious of friends who don't overthink things like me and are happy to get a cockapoo puppy from a bloke down the road that they found advertised on gumtree!!

Sorry for such a long post!!
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zeta1454
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Re: Feeling overwhelmed trying to find a "good" breeder

Post by zeta1454 »

Hello Isla and welcome to the Forum :)

It does seem to have become more complicated nowadays to try and track down a reputable breeder and there is no 100% guarantee that any breeder listed as licensed; a member of the Assured Breeder Scheme or on the breed club lists will be the perfect contact for a puppy for your family or that they are doing all you would expect from an ethical breeder.

I will try to answer some of your questions and explain what is most important in your search. The Assured Breeder Scheme members are required to provide proof that the parent dogs of a litter they are selling have a clear eye test result within the past 12 months although this has of course been impacted by the lockdown restrictions recently and therefore may not have been possible. The litter of puppies should also have been eye screened by a veterinary ophthalmologist to ensure they have no sign of congenital hereditary cataracts but, again the restrictions of the past 18 months or so have affected this too. The eye screening is a test that should be carried out annually on breeding dogs and is an important one, so even if there is a genuine reason for lack of a recent eye screening, you would still want to see evidence that the parent dogs, and further back in the pedigree had more than just a juvenile eye screen. The health test results for both the eye screening and for MAC DNA screening are available online through the Kennel Club health test results finder and, if you have the registered name of the parent dogs, you can check this quite easily. Numbers of litters bred from particular dogs and the inbreeding can also be checked with figures given for the average in the breed to give an idea of what you are looking for. I would always go further back into a pedigree to check the information on the dogs at least two if not more generations back for this information too.

The Assured Breeder Scheme is the only Scheme that currently has experienced assessors who carry out inspections on members a minimum of once every 3 years (again with a proviso re the past couple of years!) and the mandatory health testing requirements. Breeders on breed club lists are not checked by the club and neither are the breeders on the Champdogs website although the latter does have certain requirements which anyone listing litters of puppies do have to abide by including eye screening with regard to miniature schnauzers.

Prices will vary somewhat depending on locality and always have done with the South of England usually higher, however this is not universally so. I would not expect you to be paying more than £2,000 for a quality puppy, from health-checked parents and raised to the highest standards. The greatest likelihood of a healthy, well raised puppy will be from good lines going back through the pedigree and will be from breeders who show their dogs, breed occasionally and have good health and temperament as a priority. You are not going to get a quality puppy at a low price but quality does not mean paying a ridiculous sum of money. Puppies from other pedigree breeds that are numerically rare in the U.K. and raised to high standards are sold for much less than £2,000 from breeders who prioritise the health and temperament and are very careful as to who is allowed to have one of their puppies.

I would suggest using the Assured Breeder lists (Champdogs etc.) as you have been, to contact as many breeders in your travel range as you can by sending a fairly comprehensive e-mail as regards your family, environment, why you want a miniature schnauzer etc. and asking whether you can be considered for a puppy from their next litter. If possible try to find out as much as you can about the breeder beforehand - do they have a website or Facebook page for example? - and do ask about this when you contact them if you have not found it before. You may be able to assess from these whether you feel comfortable with what you see - are they constantly selling puppies; is there information about their dogs as well as puppy sales. It is unlikely that the best breeders are needing to advertise their litters so you will need to get on a waiting list and you do want to feel confident and happy with the breeder as someone you would want to have a long term connection with as regards your future puppy for advice and support - not that they are just selling the puppy and that it is it. Some breeders may be doing everything you would want in terms of health testing etc. but you just don’t feel comfortable with them and the long term connection is an important one IMO. We have had puppies in the past twenty years or so from five different breeders and have remained friends with every one and, with all those who have had puppies from us we have also maintained contact and made some firm friends.

The lack of puppies at present from the best breeders is still due in part to the uncertain times we are living through. Many of the best breeders will not be using a sire they own which means travelling with their bitch for a mating when she is in season - some people prefer the dogs to have two matings 48 hours apart which could necessitate staying overnight somewhere or travelling a long distance four times. During the lockdown and travel restrictions breeders were unable to do this and with a usual 6 month gap between seasons, planned matings may not have happened and, as summer births are preferred to winter litters (due to the difficulties of house training and socialising puppies in the coldest and darkest months) it is not surprising that there are fewer puppies available just now from good breeders.

There are some good breeders in the South / South East area but if you are really committed to getting a puppy from a good breeder, you should consider travelling. We live in Yorkshire and have travelled in the past to the South West and to up near Glasgow to get a puppy from a trusted breeder and have had families who have had puppies from us who have come from NW Scotland, London, Kent and the North West of England - in one case entailing a 5 hour train journey each way for a visit and again to collect the puppy. It may not be necessary but you don’t want to put any unnecessary blocks in your path to get a puppy that has been raised to the highest standards. ( I would just mention that we don’t breed miniature schnauzers and have not done so for several years - our 3 minis are all spayed.)

I would also recommend, if it is possible in the coming months, to try and attend a breed club show or a general breed Championship dog show (Crufts should be taking place in March 2022) where you will have the opportunity to meet breeders in person at one place and see their dogs. Both at Crufts and at other venues Discover Dogs also gives puppy seekers a chance to see the dogs and talk with the people on the miniature schnauzer stand regarding your search and maybe get a recommendation or chance to speak to a breeder there. Personal contact, feeling happy and confident in the breeder is really important and convincing them that you will provide the best possible home for one of their puppies too :)
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Sandie1
Puppy
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Joined: 16 Sep 2021, 20:23
First Name: Rachel

Re: Feeling overwhelmed trying to find a "good" breeder

Post by Sandie1 »

Hi Isla, I am by no means an expert, but I have just been in a very similar position to yourself. I lost my last mini aged 11, last October and after 6 months decided to begin a search for another. I became very downhearted because I was desperately trying to do everything right, but was rarely even receiving a reply at all. I couldn't help thinking this was extremely rude; I would have thought a polite "sorry, nothing available, but thanks for your enquiry" would not have been too much to ask for.

Through perseverance and chance, I came across a nice lady back in April, who did help me. I waited for a breeder to mate two of her bitches but neither fell pregnant and then suddenly, again by chance, I got news of a litter. At the end of October I got Iris, now 15 weeks old. So the whole process took probably 7 months but I got there! She was reasonably priced too, but we travelled from Yorkshire to South Wales.

Certainly it is a minefield. If you can get in touch with someone you like, they will often put you in touch with someone else. I would look for someone who is clear and transparent and has nothing to hide, and as Leigh mentions, a Facebook page can often tell you a lot. I did loads of research with one thing leading to another.

The wait will be worth it in the end, do not give up.
Scotsmonkey
Posts: 2
Joined: 11 Dec 2021, 15:13
First Name: Isla

Re: Feeling overwhelmed trying to find a "good" breeder

Post by Scotsmonkey »

Thank you both so much for your replies. Really helpful, I appreciate it very much.
I will persevere, I know I am probably being very impatient but I am so excited and desperate to have a little doggy now that our circumstances are right after waiting so many years! 😄
I'm sure I'll have more questions and hopefully it won't be too long before I can introduce our new little bundle of fluff 🙂
LineyDavies
Posts: 2
Joined: 29 Dec 2021, 03:52
First Name: Caroline

Re: Feeling overwhelmed trying to find a "good" breeder

Post by LineyDavies »

Hi, we are in a very similar position, but actually had a breeder and puppy lined up for collection in January. Except it turned out that she wasn't going to register the puppies with the Kennel Club and wouldn't tell us why

This meant that we took the tough decision to lose our deposit and start the hunt again, but there is just nothing available. There are some litters available on Champdogs and Pets4homes, but not the right colouring that we are looking for. If you're less picky, it's worth a look. Just make sure they are KC registered and health checked.

Good luck!!
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