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Hi our 13.5 year old mini schnauzer recovered from a bout of what we think was pancreatitis about 6 months ago , is now happy and loving life and walks up to 2 miles a day. However we just can’t seem to satisfy his hunger!
We feed him butchers lean and tasty tins and a few Ava (pets at home brand) weight management biscuits. He has this because they are both 5% fat. He has to have a low fat diet and I can tell you there isn’t much out there on the market that is 5% fat!
We feed him 4 meals a day, he typically has 2 tins and a few biscuits. He’s 12.5 kilos, yes he’s a big mini. He’s not fat but a bit pot bellied! Any advice or recommendations on foods from anyone please? Thanks
I have not experienced pancreatitis with any of our dogs so cannot speak from direct experience. We currently have 14 dogs ranging from 13 years old to 16 months of age and all have been raw fed throughout their life and thrived on this but I can offer some more general information and suggestions re supplements which I hope may be of some help.
I do know that some dogs are diagnosed with pancreatitis when it was in fact not that but a less traumatic condition that may not require stringent changes in diet so you do need to be certain that the issue was pancreatitis if you are making radical changes to the diet. It is inevitable that reducing fat to a very low level will lead to hunger and does need careful management to ensure your dog is getting all the nutrients he needs.
There are a number of causes of acute pancreatitis some of which do not involve fatty food and the type and quality of the fat can be of more significance than just all fats. Some pharmaceuticals can trigger an attack and high carbohydrate diets over-stress the pancreas as well. This article from the Veterinary Nurse professional publication highlights the uncertainty over the extent to which fat in the food is the primary cause of pancreatitis in otherwise healthy dogs:
5% fat is extremely low and it may be worth looking at relaxing this a bit as lower than 10% is usually considered low. From the veterinary article linked to above:
“ There are no direct control group evidence-based studies to support the use of low fat diets for dogs with (or with predisposing factors for) pancreatitis. More clinical research is required to look at causation links, and whether correlations are in fact causation. Anecdotal evidence by leading specilaists in interal medicine and pancreatitis do support the use of low fat diets, including one of the papers examined. As pancreatitis can lead to extreme abdominal discomfort and in severe forms is fatal, the lack of supporting evidence-based studies should not remove the weighting of anecdotal evidence. Unsupported recommendations often quote diets with less than 10% fat on a dry matter basis (DMB) (less than 17% of calories from fat) to be low fat, while diets with 10 to 15% fat (17 to 23% of calories) are considered to contain a moderate amount of fat. Foods with more than 20% fat are considered high fat. When giving nutritional advice to clients with dogs with pancreatitis, low fat diets (<10% fat on a DMB) should be recommended”
The quality of the food is vital - the highest quality animal protein and fat and as little processed as you are able to feed. There is some information on these links with more information re diet for dogs with pancreatitis:
Just a P.S to this as, having had several of our dogs live into their teens, I would say that they have all been on the look out for food more than when they were younger and this is not always that they are hungry from lack of food but maybe food becomes a more urgent and all-consuming interest as they age and other things do not distract them as they did when they were younger.
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras
Magic - Silversocks Sharade at Darksprite Trilby -Darksprite Rosa Bud
Thank you for this fantastic information. With pancreatitis not been diagnosed it is difficult to be sure this is what it was. At the time we had switched to feeding him raw food from the local pet shop and put it down to this. However, because we chose not to have any more tests done & see how he went on once we put him on to chicken & rice re the vet we never knew exactly what it was. He improved tremendously, so didn’t want him prodded about anymore ant the vets and (apart from the hunger) is happy & thriving now.
You may have hit the nail on the head though with your PS as he does get bored so easy. We walk him twice a day & never leave him alone but if he’s not tired enough he gets fractious! As he is now deaf we can no longer take him anywhere in the car as he gets soooo stressed and anxious. (We’ve tried all the different things to get him back to loving the car rides like he used to do but sadly they’ve not worked)
Maybe I need to look at other ways to occupy him and also maybe look at the higher fat butchers food to mix in. Thanks for the great advice again and I can’t imagine life with all your doggies… how wonderful!!
Maybe he would want to play some games? Work out his mind?
Games like
Find the treat- It doesn't have to be treats. I often just use regular food. Hide food around the room/house for him to sniff out and find. Or you can hide some food under a few tiers of towels for him to sniff out or roll them into a towel. You can even use scrap fabric to wrap small piles of treats before you roll it in the towel. Or a box with shredded paper.
Don't underestimate learning a new trick/cue. There's pretty much always something new you can teach your dog, there's tons of ideas if you look for them too. But this is a great way to tire out your dog and he gets a bit of food reward. I will often feed my dogs their meals by rehearsing cues, i'll give them the rest afterward.
We also use snuffle mats, wobble dispensing toys and puzzles for their meals. But the towel idea works just as well. Just enriches mealtime, slows them down and honestly it's just way more fun for them to play/work for their meal.
Lastly I play this game called scatterball. I take a treat and throw it maybe 5 ft away. Pup goes to get food. As pup looks back at me, I start moving in the opposite direction a bit to entice pup back toward me and throw another treat in the new direction. Again, when pup looks back at you, move away a bit to entice pup to come back to you. Eventually as the pup gets the idea, you can mark the moment your pup comes back before you throw another treat. Then I add my cue "ok come" and I have pup touch my palm with his nose. I do this excersise to encourage recall, but it gets the dog moving and using his mind. And they learn a new game!
I am having a very similar situation with Rupert. He has just turned 12. I noticed a change in how much water he was drinking and how long he was urinating for on our walks. He, too, always seemed hungry. At the same time, we went through a round of vomiting and diarrhea and the weight loss on him was quite noticeable. I took him to the vet and he was diagnosed with pancreatitis, as I suspected. However, my vet mentioned Cushings Disease and whether I wanted to test for it. 2 of the indications are excessive drinking and urinating. Another indication for Cushings is a pot belly, which Rupert didn't have, but I notice you mentioned it, hence my reply. I agreed to further testing and the initial tests indicated that Rupert had elevated Cortisol levels, which is an indicator. After stimulation tests, the diagnosis for Cushings was confirmed.
Rupert is now on medication to control his cortisol levels and there has been a big improvement in him. He is drinking less, urinating less and has gained some weight. He is still always hungry, but that's just him, I guess.
Rupert is on a raw diet and I am giving him less chicken and more turkey now as it is slightly lower in fat. Currently, he has around 10% fat in his diet. I haven't had any further episodes of pancreatitis since we started the medication 3 months ago.
Maybe worth getting a test done, just to rule out Cushings.
Dean (Dog dad)
Rupert, black mini, 24/12/10 - 01/03/24
Watson, black mini born 21/02/12
I offer my advice freely, but I am not an expert, breeder, groomer or behaviourist. It is simply my experience of raising pups in a way that seems to make sense.
Thank you. I did wonder about Cushings and he did have tests for that about 2 years ago when he seemed to have a pot belly then! As he still does have a pot belly maybe I should check this out again. We are going to see how he is in the next week or so. Thanks for the information & so glad Rupert is now doing well
Were the tests quite stressful for Rupert? As Alfie is approaching 14 now & hates the car, I don’t want to cause him more stress
