Miniature Schnauzer puppy Search - Midlands

[trackit2000]

Hi,
my wife and I are trying to find good breeders of Miniature Schnauzers ideally in the Midlands but we are more than happy to travel. We have had 2 mini's previously and absolutely love their individual characteristics and we miss having a dog around. If anyone has any advice on searching, particularly around the 'breeding coefficient' score as we would like to limit the chances of any issues in the future. I can find lots of information online about searching but its understanding what the most important things are to look for. We want a healthy family dog with true to breed characteristics.
many thanks
Terry

[zeta1454]

Hello Terry and welcome to the Forum

Do have a browse of the topics in the Puppy Care and Breeding sections of the Forum where there is a lot of useful pointers for anyone looking to source a well bred healthy puppy.

As regards the ‘in-breeding coefficient’, this is a simple way of describing how closely two dogs are related and, obviously if two parent dogs carry any genes for certain health conditions, this will increase the risk of their offspring developing an issue. It is not 100% certain of course and even two fit, unrelated healthy dogs can carry a hidden gene which does surface in one or more puppy.

The Kennel Club website has a ‘Health Test Results’ search facility which will let you search under a dog’s KC registered name to find the results of certain health tests they have and also their COI (coefficient of inbreeding) as well as the average COI for the breed to give you an idea how close the dogs are to this figure.

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/search ... ts-finder/

Currently there is no DNA test for miniature schnauzer eye issues - hereditary cataracts and progressive retinal atrophy - so you are reliant on the breeders regularly having their breeding dogs eye screened - the results will be on the Kennel Club site. You must be given the eye screen results too from any breeder you are getting a puppy from as well as the litter eye screen results before purchase. Assured Breeders are required to have the eye screening of parent dogs carried out in the year before the puppies are born and litters will not be registered under the scheme if this is not done (although puppies can be registered outside the ABS).

The other test that is recommended for miniature schnauzers is the DNA test for MAC which is a one-off test and, if both parent dogs are clear, their puppies will be hereditarily clear even without a separate test. Results are available on the breed club websites as well as the Kennel Club website.

viewtopic.php?p=306119&hilit=Mycobacterium#p306119

Certainly checking the breeders listed on the Assured Breeder Scheme is a good start for searching out a breeder of healthy happy puppies, and you definitely want to see that the above health tests are being carried out and have the results as well as knowing the parent dogs are not too closely related. However, above and beyond this, you want a breeder who is passionate about the breed, who understands their characteristics and can advise on grooming, nutrition, health care etc. and not just selling! You want to find someone you feel confident cares about all their dogs and raises happy resilient puppies starting socialisation and challenge protocols before the puppies leave home so they are already accustomed to household noises, different people, outside experiences and preferably house training and crate training also started. Good breeders are always happy to talk about their dogs in great detail and will continue to have a lifetime interest in the progress of any puppy they have bred and will hope to keep contact with their puppies’ new families and will always take back or re-home any puppy/dog they have bred if tragedy strikes and a family can no longer keep the dog.

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/search ... d-breeder/

Beyond online links, I would recommend that anyone looking for a puppy, goes to either a breed club show or a championship dog show (or more than one) where many breeders of quality, breed standard dogs will be found and an opportunity for a puppy seeker to see their dogs and talk to a number of different breeders/owners in one place. All the schnauzer clubs hold a couple of shows a year in different parts of the country and there are numerous championship dog shows throughout the summer. The main breed clubs are:

http://www.theminiatureschnauzerclub.co.uk/

http://northernschnauzerclub.co.uk/

Good luck in your search

[trackit2000]

Thank you for your comprehensive reply, really interesting and very useful links.
With regards to the in-breeding coefficient, I've seen varying levels from 0 to 20, I've been looking for close to the quoted breed average of 3.3% in the puppy, and up to the grandparents, am I limiting myself unnecessarily? Our 2 previous minis were from the same breeder 5 years apart, I've since found out that both dogs had scores around 20% and both had health conditions such as heart murmur's, allergies and poor teeth.
I have also seen that health screening seems to be more detailed on champdogs website than on the kennel clubs, one dog shown as a carrier of PMDS on champs but that's not shown on the KC site for the same dog, is that picked up on a DNA test normally? Do breeders have to declare any known health issues that exist in the parents of the puppy or is it assumed that if they would?
many thanks again

[zeta1454]

The in-breeding is important and I would generally not want to select a puppy that was too closely in-bred for the health risks. It is not always obvious even to a good breeder that there could be an issue if they do not test their dogs. However 3.3% is low and if you found a breeder you trusted to have welfare as a priority, you may want to relax this a little. Less than 5% is considered best but between 5-10% may still be fine. There is a little more information on this specific topic on this link:

https://www.dogbreedhealth.com/a-beginn ... de-to-coi/

The other thing to bear in mind is that some health conditions are due to other considerations than heredity. Nutrition being a major factor in good health and avoidance of too much exposure to chemical toxins such as via regular anti-parasite treatments / over vaccination which can severely impact a dog’s health over the years. With our dogs we raw feed; only have puppy vaccinations done and use the Wormcount laboratories for periodic faecal egg counts to check if there is a need for worming rather than giving unnecessary treatments. We have followed this protocol for 16 years now and have found no reason to change this. We currently have 15 dogs ranging from 14 weeks to 13 years of age and only one of our eldest (not a mini schnauzer) has any health issue. She developed a heart murmur aged 11 years but 18 months on is doing fine without pharmaceutical intervention.

As regards health screening generally, more and more DNA tests are becoming available for dogs each year and to some extent it is up to individual breeders as to how significant a risk they think a particular inherited issue is within a breed. The Kennel Club liaises with the breed health coordinator of the relevant breed club as to which health issues are regarded of such serious a threat to the integrity of the breed that they recommend or require breeders to carry these out. The Kennel Club will only publish health results for the conditions they have agreed are those of most concern which, in the case of miniature schnauzers are the eye screening and the DNA test for MAC but breeders may have carried out more and you could also enquire of a breeder if you are concerned about any one of the others. The Champdogs website will publish all health results they are presented with by the breeder as they operate in a different way. PMDS does now have a DNA test available. More details here:

https://www.laboklin.co.uk/laboklin/sho ... estID=8462

If a breeder is a member of the Assured Breeder Scheme, it would be expected that any health issue revealed in the vet check of the puppy before sale and any known health issues in the parents would be declared to a puppy seeker and they could be reported to the Kennel Club if they had deliberately misled someone getting a puppy from them.. However it is not a legal requirement. If a breeder is aware of any inherited health issue in their lines, I would have expected that the dogs affected would not be bred from. However, some issues can appear late in life and it is not always the case that a breeder would be aware of a problem before using them in breeding. I would definitely expect a good breeder to be open and honest about their dogs’ health with anyone looking to obtain a puppy from them and the Contract of Sale should specify that any puppy sold is in good health and from healthy parents.

[trackit2000]

All this information has been fantastic and has given me hours of reading and a lot more knowledge, thank you for this.