Reactivity training - how long did it take?

[Rhona1705]

Hi all

We have had our 2 year old mini for 7 months now. When he arrived, his outside training was non existent - he was nervous outside and wasnt socialised with other dogs, would run off if off lead and generally paid no attention to us when he was outside. Indoors, he was a different dog - v well behaved, obedient and quiet.

We have been working with a trainer for 6 months and he has come on leaps and bounds. His recall and focus outside have massively improved. The only thing we haven't yet cracked is his reactivity to other dogs. We work on focus and treats when dogs are approaching, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If the dog is on the same pavement and too close, its v difficult for him not to react. We are not really seeing an improvement in his behaviour towards other dogs. Off the lead he is fine (but will dart up to any dog) but on lead he barks and lunges. I think it is a mix of fear and generally not knowing how to socialise properly - we are working on his socialisation by sending him to doggy daycare twice a week and he gets walked with a group of dogs a couple of times a week. As he knows those dogs, he doesnt react at all to them. Also, in our group training classes (held outdoors in a country park with lots of other dogs around) when the trainer is there, he is perfectly behaved.

I just wanted to find out from others who had similar issues how long it took for the reactivity to subside with training? I have every confidence we will crack it as we have with his other training but it would be good to get an idea of how long it could potentially take.

[annie_a]

Oscar is a very well socialised 9 month old and like you, off lead he is fine but if he's on the lead and sees another dog approaching. ...Oh the noise! As soon as he gets up to the other dog he's absolutely fine. I'm not sure whether he's a)desperate to meet and say Hello or b)being aggresive because he's on the lead and therefore feels threatened. I too am hoping he grows out of it but I fear not.

[Rhona1705]

Thanks Annie. Rocco is the same, but sometimes he can snap at the other dog. I think it's fear and not knowing how to interact, hopefully with time that will get better.

[Maty]

Creggan is sometimes like this but I know his is mainly excitement ;)

Have you thought about a behaviourist rather than a trainer? They have different skills and usually do one on one sessions with follow up if needed and they can spot things that you just don't see.

If you want to go down that route this may help http://www.apbc.org.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lj_thorne]

So I have the three boys Albert is super reactive, Barnaby was reactive but still has triggers and Sherman who isn't reactive at all.

Albert who's three next week used to woof at air, now only woofs at people and dogs, but we can stop the woof and get him back before he goes over the threshold of woofing at anything!

Barnaby was a silent puppy who found his woof and he took 18months for us to have a non Woofy walk!!! My hairdresser laughed at me as I was describing always having treats on me... Oh yes... No treats = Woofy Barnaby!! As long as I see the person/dog and warn him we can past ok without a woof.

There are no quick fixes unfortunately and if I'm honest the behaviouralist we had in for Albert didn't point out anything much more than a consistent dog trainer did in terms of reactivity. The trick is distraction... Warning them or seeing something first... Etc! I won't go on as it sounds like your doing ok

All three are walked separately !!!! Unless we go to the dog park which is a locked 15acte field which we hire for 1/2 hour!!!

[annie_a]

I know distraction is always suggested but what I don't understand is how distraction is going to teach the dog not to react? Surely it just means you'll have to distract them always because if they don't see the other dog then how will they ever learn not to react? There's something I'm not getting here I think.

[Maty]

I know distraction is always suggested but what I don't understand is how distraction is going to teach the dog not to react? Surely it just means you'll have to distract them always because if they don't see the other dog then how will they ever learn not to react? There's something I'm not getting here I think.

By consistently distracting and treating they get used to the idea that other people and dogs are something that means good things…..eventually they spot the distraction themselves and sit and ask for their treat for being good…….even longer term, if you are lucky, they can walk past without reacting ;)

[zeta1454]

I know distraction is always suggested but what I don't understand is how distraction is going to teach the dog not to react? Surely it just means you'll have to distract them always because if they don't see the other dog then how will they ever learn not to react? There's something I'm not getting here I think.

As Maty said above, the constant distraction from the situation or dog that is causing the reaction can eventually lead to the dog associating the sight of whatever has bothered it with getting a treat. It is as if the sight of the dog becomes the trigger for treats and if he likes treats this should effectively begin to turn him from a dog that sees a "trigger" for barking ( such as another dog) into a dog that sees that same trigger as one for treats.

We had a puppy that we bred returned to us last year from a good home but one that was quite remote from traffic. When we walked him, even in our fairly quiet village, he got into a panic when any vehicles went by. He did not bark but became very agitated and tried to fling himself at them which was obviously scary for us and dangerous for him. I have consistently taken out a bag of small treats with me on every lead walk in the village and whenever a vehicle approaches from either direction I stop and get out a treat which he receives as soon as the vehicle reaches us. Initially I would hold his harness tight also to prevent him lunging at the vehicle but it did not take very long before this became totally unnecessary as he would hear the vehicle coming and immediately turn to me to receive a treat. Now while it doesn't actually bother me if this treating did continue as long as he is safe, I have noticed that on some occasions ( and more often now) if he is already distracted when a vehicle goes by - such as if he is sniffing an interesting smell or sampling some local vegetation, he actually is not reacting either so I would think that progress is being made even if slowly and he will eventually not bother at all when vehicles go by

However, as mentioned by previous posts above, different dogs can have different levels of reactivity and even within a family of related dogs raised in the same household you can find differences in temperament and behaviour. This can be even more the case with a dog that has been rehomed or rescued, if they were not socialised at a young age. I would say that it sounds as though you have done very well with Rocco already and you may progress further but always bear in mind that for some things it is less stressful to try and avoid " confrontation" rather than becoming frustrated at failed attempts to make a dog ( or person) face a situation they actually cannot cope with. It is not at all unusual for a a dog with insecurity issues around other dogs to feel extra fearful when restrained on a lead. If they know they can get away if they need or want to then they are much more relaxed and less likely to lunge out or even bark. There is a mini schnauzer in our village who is well known locally for barking savagely at any dog he sees when out on a walk but we have met him in the woods off lead and he is quiet and friendly and met our dogs with no problem at all.

Do use the distraction technique and I am sure that it will see results but I would also try to avoid the most stressful type of encounters if you possibly can, certainly initially, such as trying to make sure that Rocco does not have to deal with a dog on the same pavement as him when on lead. It may be just too great a stress for him to cope with this at the present. "Socialisation" for dogs strictly speaking can only be done up to about three to four months of age as, after this, if there are behavioural issues you are looking at behaviour modification and counter conditioning which are different things altogether. Socialisation in the early weeks and months are to try and "proof" a young dog for the future against becoming stressed in a variety of new situations or at least to enable them to quickly recover from the stress. it is in these early weeks that puppies also learn how to behave around other dogs, what canine signals mean and how to give the right signals themselves - if this has not happened at that stage a dog will always be at a disadvantage in its relations with other dogs although this may not necessarily mean they cannot learn to control some of their reactivity around them especially when they feel they are not being forced into a situation where they canmot escape.

Good luck and do not despair - sometimes it feels as though there is no progress and then suddenly things all fall into place

[Rhona1705]

Thank you all for your v helpful tips. Our trainer uses the distraction method - sit and look whilst another dog passes. If I catch it early I can sometimes get no reaction. I wasn't sure whether distraction was the right treatment as that seemed to be targeting the action rather than the cause of why he is anxious/fearful in the first place. He doesn't look to me for treats if he sees a dog and we have been doing the training for the last 6 months, hence why I wasn't sure if we were doing the right thing for him. I am maybe just being impatient!! It's just that he almost seems to be getting worse with it! I have spoken to a behaviourist today so will try her for a second opinion.

[robrauy]

I agree that (ime) distraction is only part of the solution - Useful for getting past dogs, and most importantly for stopping them from practising the behaviour...

I used BAT (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behavior-Adjust ... 1617810509) for situations where you have enough distance between yourself and the target so that your dog will appear interested/excited without going over threshold. Well worth a read, though lots of commitment and hard work is required.. Dylan is just coming up to 2 and has always been reactive to other dogs, mostly on lead. After lots of forward/backward steps we seem to be getting there, and can walk quietly past most dogs without food being involved and just about all with a thrown treat, and a "Find it"

Incidentally we found the "Watch" pretty hard to achieve when over excited by an approaching dog. A hand touch has proved much easier to achieve and just as effective. Again this is just my personal experience. Also I don't think he has actually become less reactive - I think that we have just found coping strategies for dealing with whatever is upsetting him. Not sure that there is a cure as such - Classical conditioning (ie changing his emotional response based on association with a treat) seems to take a very long time to achieve!

[Rhona1705]

Hi robrauy, thank you for your post. When you say a hand touch instead of watch , what do you mean?

[robrauy]

Hi robrauy, thank you for your post. When you say a hand touch instead of watch , what do you mean?

Youtube video here:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWSJVwZybwo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Cat M]

Well done you Rhona for putting in so much time and dedication to help Rocco be the best dog he can
It sounds like you are already doing lots but you might be interested in some online courses with Fenzi Dog School Academy. I have done several courses and have learnt so much, as have my dogs.
I haven't done this course, but I know others who have and give it great feedback
http://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com/in ... courses/84" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Or have a look at the other courses they are running this summer. Sometimes learning new ways to engage your dog can help in these situations.
http://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com/in ... d-syllabus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sign ups for next courses are 22nd July, courses start 1st August. Pm me if you have any questions about doing their courses. I can't recommend them highly enough.

[Rhona1705]

That's great, thanks. I will have a look.

Can I ask people's opinion on why to go for an apbc behaviourist? There are a number of behaviourists in our area, 2 of whom are apbc registered and also double the cost! I want to get the best for roccos training so happy to pay more but I just wanted to know if anyone has had experience of an apbc trainer and can recommend over an unregistered behaviourist (who comes recommended)

[Maty]

Anyone can call themselves a behaviourist, by going with an APBC behaviourist you have some guarantee that they have been though some formal training and have a professional body behind them ;)

Sometimes you get what you pay for!